S3EP30 - Morality

Pastor Bill:

Hello and welcome to season 3 episode 30 the Berean Manifesto: Faith, Hope, and Love for the Modern Christian. First off, I want to apologize if you hear the, weird sounds that my voice is my mouth is making my bottom temporary Dentures snapped and I haven't found a good way to fix it yet I've ordered a kit for actually fixing that that's meant for fixing that, and it's on its way but it hasn't gotten here yet so for this one episode, bear with me that I don't sound like my normal self and that some some letters are going to sound funny, like when I try to say words that start with an S like sound or Shay well you know things like this, what Shea Butter Shea Stadium.

 

Pastor Newms:

Nope it's just you tried to you there was it sounded like there was an eye in there for a second I was like hmm.

 

Pastor Bill:

Now there wasn't no I all right so how was your week Pastor Newms.

 

Pastor Newms:

It was pretty good it was nothing out of the ordinary nothing weird or strange or or any of that it was just pretty bland, yeah. Played some games,nothing special they are either, I worked a lot we hung out a bunch the girls are out of school now that's a thing which means it's gonna be a very long summer since they're going to be home the whole time, in the house all day every day while me and my sister work from here also so it's going to be that's going to be a little interesting but yeah so that's pretty much it, was your week.

 

Pastor Bill:

My week was um I wouldn't say it was awesome it was it was pretty good, send today yesterday at Roxanne's aunt's house, for Memorial Day kind of had a bit of an emotional meltdown yesterday morning and me and Roxanne had a nice long, 30 minute maybe 45 minute talk more like yelling you know back and forth because I melted down and, so that was good it's always good to get on the same page and. Not be alone in what you're going through anymore, so you know because she's been working and she works a lot and when she's not working she's sleeping and when she's not sleeping and it's just a really small window every day that we can connect, it's been kind of hard on you know our day-to-day lives trying to adjust to the schedule for working overnights, so we're just we're growing through that and I haven't been faring well as you as you know Pastor Newms but we're, we're moving through so that was my week also we decided you and I and and we brought in our wives as members of the board and as people who had the objective looks at our lives, um we're going to expand our, streaming services and add some gaming into the mix where you and I do some some gaming and stream that gaming and invite people to come hang out with us and, do some more of that friendship evangelism stuff that we're always talking about, and so we ordered a gaming computer for me to use and I got a new monitor and, I was going to say something else about that.

 

Pastor Newms:

Soon we'll be updating channels on when that's going to be going on. I don't know if anything else you did.

 

Pastor Bill:

Yeah.

 

Pastor Newms:

You bought the cheap little headset that you're wearing. Comparatively inexpensive headset that a better way of saying it.

 

Pastor Bill:

It’s like ten dollars cheaper than the gaming headsets over in the console section. And it was right next to the ten dollar headsets, over in the PC section yeah because I don't have my teeth in I broke my bottom, my bottom temporary denture and haven't had a good way to fix it yet so so yeah so tonight no teeth for Pastor Bill. Yeah you did tell us about your nails.

 

Pastor Newms:

What about them.

 

Pastor Bill:

They're dark.

 

Pastor Newms:

Yeah it happens.

 

Pastor Bill:

It happens they're not normally dark though.

 

Pastor Newms:

Sometimes it happens Tina was doing her nails last night and she was sitting there paint numb and I was like I want my nails done so I did my nails.

 

Pastor Bill:

Okay doctor's office I'm not going to go pay thousands of dollars to get, my teeth replaced I ordered a kit to try to fix it myself I just have to wait for it to arrive I didn't finish paying off for the temporary dentures that are broken.

 

Pastor Newms:

Yeah.

 

Pastor Bill:

It's ridiculous.

 

Pastor Newms:

That's what you get for sneezing.

 

Pastor Bill:

Well I originally broke them meeting popcorn, and then I think still and then I sneezed in they broke again and I fixed them and then I ate and they broke again and then and they broke again and then broke it yeah, yeah on Amazon is where I ordered my denture repair kit so it'll be here I think Thursday is when it’s arriving.

 

Pastor Newms:

Okay so that is part of it since Tina said it I'll say it now that we are fully in, the swing of being in Tennessee the, well let me rephrase it now that I'm fully vaccinated and less. Panicked might not be the correct word but I'm a germaphobe anyone who knows me knows that and so because of that the pandemic that is, going on was very hard for me dealing with to anyone being anywhere close to me, and so we stopped going to physical Church, when I have the vaccine everyone starting to go back and so we decided to start looking at some new churches, the church that we like a lot is about 50 something minutes away which isn't terrible but it is very, hard on a Sunday because the biggest part about that is you can't truly get involved, in order to get involved you have to go to the early service which means up at 5 a.m. to get there for the 8 a.m. you know and then you're there all day and then you're forced to eat out your for you know it's just it's a snowball that causes, a day I don't enjoy.

 

Pastor Bill:

Right.

 

Pastor Newms:

And so we decided to start looking at a couple of new churches well one of the things that I typically do when I'm looking at new churches is I tend to be a little more extravagant than I usually am, to allow for, to test not test test is the wrong word to.

 

Pastor Bill:

Test is exactly the right word.

 

Pastor Newms:

Well check in.

 

Pastor Bill:

The Bible even says it test the spirits.

 

Pastor Newms:

Yeah it is test but it's also to confirm, more than test because like I read everyone's online thing before we try churches and so it's like you know we look for we look for a certain type of, Church they have to be open they have to be loving they have to be you know all the things that we talk about here also and so you, anticipate that it's going to be that and, so I wore full chain Nails you know this shirt, because in my mind if a church is not loving towards me coming in looking like how I sometimes look they're never going to be kind to the type of people I usually minister to who, and all the time and I'm mild compared to Philly so because of that.

 

Pastor Bill:

Maturity.

 

Pastor Newms:

My trip pants are too faded they're no longer black that's the problem since all the 90s stuff is coming back I really need trip to come back hard and I'm going to buy like 30 of them, in like three sizes and just have them forever anyway, so that's the other reason why I, did my nails and stuff today just because visiting a new church and, not sure we really enjoyed it we're still going to be watching Life Church on TV you know I typically do the podcast of the sermons that they have out, but it's like I messaged you it's really really nice I missed a lot more than some people live worship, because I'm very much a worship person and so, I know I can fuse the camera by moving too much but I can't sit still because I broke my only desk fidget.

 

Pastor Bill:

H puff Phoenix. I was thinking as someone from Phoenix Arizona joined us on Twitch.

 

Pastor Newms:

It's h puff because she's a Hufflepuff and Phoenix because well Phoenix is a cool.

 

Pastor Bill:

I was thinking h puff Phoenix because she's a Hufflepuff that wishes she was a Gryffindor so that she could get the worthiness of the Phoenix.

 

Pastor Newms:

No she would never be a good Gryffindor.

 

Pastor Bill:

Sorry to be a disappointment, that's not a disappointment at all.

 

Pastor Newms:

Which is an extreme Hufflepuff thing to say but we're not going to.

 

Pastor Bill:

Really is.

 

Pastor Newms:

So I have obtained fidget it was on Tina's desk in the cup holder I was looking around and then I noticed it underneath, the Dragonite right here and I was like oh.

 

Pastor Bill:

And I have my fidget my custom sonic screwdriver.

 

Pastor Newms:

Stop handing me ten different fidgets because I said something brat. Came in here and handed me like ten different fidgets and put them on the corner of my desk including, including my spider do you like my spider.

 

Pastor Bill:

Oh my zadie on Twitch is merging fandoms she says she's Divergent because she's all the houses.

 

Pastor Newms:

She is she has taken the test like six or seven times, constricted test the first time and she was like I am not one of those there's no way she took the test again got a completely different result, to protest again got a completely different result so she's now taking it like six or seven times and gotten every result but, the one she truly wants now so he's happy see he's such a happy little guy I'm a hat, I'm a happy guy.

 

Pastor Bill:

All right Boris you can go in now.

 

Pastor Newms:

No I'm not I'm angry angry, so I am this actually sits between me and Heather, and when I'm in a bad mood I turn him and that tells anyone walking into the office you should probably leave daddy alone Daddy's in a mood.

 

Pastor Bill:

That's awesome.

 

Pastor Newms:

So

 

Pastor Bill:

All right so now it's time for the segment we call “Get To Know The Pastor.” As Newms moans here we go. Who is your favorite hero of fiction?

 

Pastor Newms:

Mmm you go first.

 

Pastor Bill:

Favorite you do that every time.

 

Pastor Newms:

Because I can't make a decision.

 

Pastor Bill:

Every time you go first.

 

Pastor Newms:

Your idea you should have to go first.

 

Pastor Bill:

You're wearing your favorite Hero on your shirt.

 

Pastor Newms:

He is not a hero.

 

Pastor Bill:

He is a hero he's a reluctant hero.

 

Pastor Newms:

He is not a hero he says it over and over again he does not count.

 

Pastor Bill:

Well he does heroic things.

 

Pastor Newms:

But see here's the problem if I have to sum up all of fiction,I can't sum it up that easily because if we're talking about all of fiction we're talking about, all the different universes the DC the Marvel the the, Doctor Who's Star Trek the Star Wars the Tolkien The CS Lewis the you're talking about all these things and going, which is your favorite I can't pick a favorite in the Marvel Universe. So because of that how am I supposed to pick one for all of fiction. No I didn't answer I didn't answer no it wasn't that's it that's a bullshirt answer that doesn't count look I sent.

 

Pastor Bill:

Not if it was not if it was an honest answer.

 

Pastor Newms:

Doesn't matter it's an incorrect answer nothing is not an answer what is yours not that I don't already know the answer can't be Jesus because it's supposed to be fiction.

 

Pastor Bill:

It has to come from fiction.

 

Pastor Newms:

And Jesus is depicted in most fictions as kind of.

 

Pastor Bill:

Hufflepuff Phoenix on Twitch said Jesus the answer is Jesus but that can't yeah that doesn't fit The Narrative of the question that specified fiction, favorite hero of fiction. Zadie asks is myths based on true stories, would those be fiction and therefore not count as well but know if you if you make something up, and just because it's based in reality like you can say you're having trouble.

 

Pastor Newms:

Trouble I think you supposed to taste trouble I don't know what kind.

 

Pastor Bill:

Am I having trouble I don't know what kind either.

 

Pastor Newms:

You're moving around a lot more than normal.

 

Pastor Bill:

Oh I feel like I'm a lot more free because the laptop is like normally I'm like this and the laptop is like right up into my belly and I can't move. I didn't change the subject I'm responding to the chatter on Twitch okay.

 

Pastor Newms:

Biggs is being a booty.

 

Pastor Bill:

Favorite hero from fiction,I immediately thought Green Lantern.

 

Pastor Newms:

No that's impossible.

 

Pastor Bill:

But there are so many Green Lanterns.

 

Pastor Newms:

You can't go there.

 

Pastor Bill:

You have to have to pick one Green Lantern to be my favorite and I just don't know that I can do that. I don't know what you're talking about.

 

Pastor Newms:

Really. We've lost Billiam see he got up and broke his broke his office.

 

Pastor Bill:

You're talking about.

 

Pastor Newms:

I don't either that's why I'm saying that's why I'm like.

 

Pastor Bill:

Idea I don't know who that could be.

 

Pastor Newms:

Technically Deadpool be classified as an antihero also that's why I can't use him.

 

Pastor Bill:

And yet you use the word hero in that description.

 

Pastor Newms:

Yes but an anti paladins not a paladin.

 

Pastor Bill:

It's still a paladin.

 

Pastor Newms:

No it's not it's the opposite. Yes I know. See it's an unfair question.

 

Pastor Bill:

It is it is an unfair question because it's hard to narrow it down and.

 

Pastor Newms:

Like had we said favorite Marvel easy Wolverine.

 

Pastor Bill:

Yeah if it's a Taylor DC I would have said you know Green. My favorite Marvel would be Hulk.

 

Pastor Newms:

My favorite DC would have to be Lobo.

 

Pastor Bill:

Hulk smash.

 

Pastor Newms:

I love that I love that you just leaving the fact that I said Lobo alone.

 

Pastor Bill:

Yeah I don't even want to touch the Lobo that's just gross why would you choose Lobo.

 

Pastor Newms:

Kiss no again Ghost Rider doesn't count he's an antihero.

 

Pastor Bill:

Um and you can you gotta be more specific like when I said with Green Lantern there's there's more than one Green Lantern there's more than one Ghost Rider.

 

Pastor Newms:

Yeah because there's Ghost Rider all the way back to prehistoric where he literally wrote a dinosaur same with Captain Marvel which one.

 

Pastor Bill:

Yeah well key.

 

Pastor Newms:

Again we have strayed from actual real heroes he's only a hero when he feels like it that means he's not a hero means he's a low-key, because can't classify him which is another thing me and you both watch the show Ragnarok this past week.

 

Pastor Bill:

We did we watch.

 

Pastor Newms:

That was an interesting depiction of some of those characters.

 

Pastor Bill:

That was really interesting yeah.

 

Pastor Newms:

I doubt I can watch the next season whenever it comes out though.

 

Pastor Bill:

Which Doctor Who what do you mean they're all the doctor. Faith that I enjoyed the most was portrayed by David Tennant yes, I thought he did a good job of engulfing a lot of their most loved aspects of the original doctors portrayals, um of those aspects I thought he did a good job of pulling those together, and then I have to tip my hat to Matt Tennant that he did a really good job of displaying the progress from, well I used to be this guy and now I'm this guy but every once in a while the guy that I was, comes through and then I have a moment of.

 

Pastor Newms:

Sir what name did you just say no you did not.

 

Pastor Bill:

That's enough what did I say.

 

Pastor Newms:

You said Matt Tennant.

 

Pastor Bill:

Okay Matt Smith, David Tennant Matt Smith.

 

Pastor Newms:

And Tina you can't say the War Doctor Zadie cannot say the War Doctor due to the fact that the War Doctor is not a hero he even says he's not I mean that one doesn't count either can't be a hero.

 

Pastor Bill:

Even nine wasn't a hero until he met Rose.

 

Pastor Newms:

Yeah he was real messed up till he met right yeah.

 

Pastor Bill:

Um yeah if you're going to ask me literary fiction, I would choose John Carter of Edgar Rice Burroughs is,

Barsoom series Disney then made a movie about it but it bombed and.

 

Pastor Newms:

I don't think I could do literary.

 

Pastor Bill:

Now literary fiction. Why not.

 

Pastor Newms:

It's just too much. There's just I've read too much over the years too pick one.

 

Pastor Bill:

Okay all right I think we're thoroughly warmed up Comics count no they don't.

 

Pastor Newms:

Manga does Comics don't.

 

Pastor Bill:

How much don't count as literary fiction as you're going to say graphic novels. You can call that literary fiction but comics.

 

Pastor Newms:

That's why that's why Manga fits is because it is a literary Style but anyway.

 

Pastor Bill:

It's all written word.

 

Pastor Newms:

Okay we be calm down.

 

Pastor Bill:

He has to have a certain length before it's considered a work of literature a literary work. Like you don't open up the newspaper and look at a comic strip and go I'm reading this this work of literature. Okay so this week we're talking about morality right and morality is this interesting issue, and we've talked about morality before in the past we focused on. Okay hold on pause Zaidie did you just type that you called Newms a Jerusalem.

 

Pastor Newms:

That that that can't be what she meant.

 

Pastor Bill:

Zaidie says I called Newms of Jerusalem he called me a weeb. Sorry I did not mean to.

 

Pastor Newms:

Okay well what was supposed to.

 

Pastor Bill:

Did you mean to type Israel I don't know which what did you mean to say.

 

Pastor Newms:

How did you get Jerusalem from anything. She called me a jerk face not you.

 

Pastor Bill:

She called Newms jerkface.

 

Pastor Newms:

Oh cuz I called her a week she has a weep she owns manga she's a weep sorry move.

 

Pastor Bill:

So we've talked about morality in the past and we talked about it in the past and I don't I didn't look up the episode number I should have but I didn't I've identified morality as the corruption, that took over Adam and Eve, before they ate the apple they had no concept of morality no concept of right and wrong no concept of Good and Evil there was just, I'm innocent and I do what's natural to me and everything is acceptable because, I just want to please the Lord and there's only one thing that I'm supposed to steer clear of, but they had no concept of this morality and right and wrong and then when they ate the fruit big brings up not an apple and he's right it's not an apple in, in the Dark Ages they were convinced that it was a tomato the apple is a more modern thing it's funny how heart, influences deal you know.

 

Pastor Newms:

So much.

 

Pastor Bill:

When people started painting depictions of Adam and Eve in the garden with an apple, then all the sudden the church started saying well it's an apple it's an apple before that they were saying it's a tomato it's a tomato before that they were saying it's some curse fruit that we don't have anymore. Right and so this one started painting it and then we get things like don't put your elbows on the table when you're eating that's disrespectful to God, and this is like for people that you're eating with well why is that well because Leonardo da Vinci painted the Last Supper and everyone has their elbows off the table except for Judas Iscariot, in that painting and suddenly it became improper to have your elbows on the table because, Judas was painting with his elbows on the table.

 

Pastor Newms:

Which is the least of the things that he might have done I mean like elbows are not like who cares like.

 

Pastor Bill:

Right okay.

 

Pastor Newms:

Morality.

 

Pastor Bill:

Morality and we talked about how morality, isn't something that we as humans are supposed to be dealing with not in our Natural State we had no concept of morality until, the fruit right and then suddenly we have this concept of morality right from wrong and not only do we have this concept that we apply to ourselves then we turn that around and we force what we think is right and wrong, on to others around us and this is where we get into a lot of trouble in trying to minister to other people, is we have this ingrained sense of morality that we then intermingle, with the gospel and the gospel was never presented in that manner, you never see once in the gospel in all the whole new testament you never see once where morality becomes a part of the Gospel there are some moral conversations that happen. Inside of the church's between one believer and another believer, saying well this is the way that I believe the church should be run this is the way I believe that church goers should behave this is the way I believe leaders in the church should behave, but you never once see them nixing this idea of right and wrong into what it is to be sane, they're not the same topic they're not the same concept.

 

Pastor Newms:

Definitely it's separate concept I think there's a couple places where it's heavily implied but it is not part of Salvation yes.

 

Pastor Bill:

And so that's not really what we're focusing on in this conversation but we had that's what we've talked about in the past so in this conversation we're going to talk about, is morality a set standard God's standard of morality absolute morality, forever or is morality, can the idea of what's right and wrong between man and God change over time okay, this is a big question that we have to answer and there's been a lot of talk about it, and I think I see a lot of area where Christians and the modern church had gone all Askew on this conversation and it's confused a lot of people, excuse me. It's confused a lot of people to wear they're then taking this idea that they're being taught by Christians in the church, and looking at the scripture through a lens of what they're being taught and getting all kinds of confused and then rejecting the church rejecting God and rejecting Christianity out right, because what they're seeing in the church and what they're being taught by the church then causes this huge contradiction, with what's in scripture and what they think is right and so on and so on and so on the Newms did you have anything you want to add to the conversation at this point.

 

Pastor Newms:

Um normal that you keep going first.

 

Pastor Bill:

Really so absolute relative absolute morality, pretty easy to understand it's the belief that there is one set of rules, that is always the set of rules for all people for all time and it's passed down by one Almighty person being, that is where. Hufflepuff Phoenix on Twitch asks but wouldn't the Redemption from Jesus sacrifice change those black-and-white moments to Gray. Respond to that comment.

 

Pastor Newms:

What you responded to comment you're in the middle of a sentence yes.

 

Pastor Bill:

And I remember where I was.

 

Pastor Newms:

Is it absolute between man and God forever or is.

 

Pastor Bill:

That's absolute morality relative morality is the philosophical belief, that right and wrong are not absolute values but our personalized according to the individual and his or her circumstances or cultural orientation.

 

Pastor Newms:

Okay so I want to interject now at this point so. Morality part of what we have to determine in this conversation is what morality are we talking about, are we talking about man's morality, towards  ourselves meaning how we live our morality or are we speaking to morality as a set of rules dictated by God, because to me that equals two different answers, morality as we view it as humans and morality is God views it is going to be different.

 

Pastor Bill:

Why.

 

Pastor Newms:

Easy because got God doesn't change right.

 

Pastor Bill:

Okay.

 

Pastor Newms:

So the rules that he set forth as rules, I would not change overtime. But how he views humans is different because of the sacrifices and Jesus. Because the rules that God set forth our, not I don't mean the Commandments that got written down because those had a specific purpose I mean the morality of, what God determined morality in the beginning that, I don't think ever changed originally the Only Rule is don't touch that thing over there, that never changed one person touched it he kicked all of them out of the garden and no one else has ever been able to touch it he put a physical barrier to where no one ever got to touch it again, then we have the concept of morality now I'm assuming based on your definition of morality being done. The belief system and how we operate in it if that's what we're going for because there is a belief about Godly morality meaning God's morality and I don't think that ever changes, the key to it is of course salvation and Jesus sacrificing well that erases it, so what Heather's Point makes it gray but gray is not accurate either.

 

Pastor Bill:

Okay so let's back up for a second, and let me present the idea that God like Adam and Eve has no concept of morality.

 

Pastor Newms:

Then I would agree with your assertions sadly we don't know it's never actually talked about mmm.

 

Pastor Bill:

But we do know because God created Adam and Eve in his own image like himself they had no concept of morality they didn't know right from wrong, they didn't inherently have that, and God said if they eat it they'll become like us and they'll know the difference between right and wrong.

 

Pastor Newms:

So he already knew.

 

Pastor Bill:

He knew but is he tied to it.

 

Pastor Newms:

Well that's that's that's the thought process and that we don't know.

 

Pastor Bill:

Yeah I believe he's not tied to it and I believe there's enough biblical precedence to prove that morality that the the morality that god holds Humanity, is relative. I don't think they are I think the same thing.

 

Pastor Newms:

You Sodom and Gomorrah as an example okay.

 

Pastor Bill:

Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

Pastor Newms:

Sodom and Gomorrah yep Sodom and Gomorrah God said I'm going to kill all of them because they've sinned, I'm going to destroy the cities because they've.

 

Pastor Bill:

He said the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is he meant, and their sin is extremely serious I will go down to see if what they have done to see if what they have done, justifies the cry that has come up to me, if not I will find out so God says the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had judged themselves according to their own culture, to be living a moral lives I'm gonna go down, and double-check and make sure that they really are living against their own moral code and if they are I'm going to destroy them.

 

Pastor Newms:

Or you could believe one could infer from the same passage he's going down to verify is the outcry actually against my moral code because he doesn't say, see what I mean one could argue with the same passage either thing. He's going down to judge them to judge if it is true so is he judging it based on them or is he judging it based on him.

 

Pastor Bill:

Okay. Exodus chapter 21 starting in verse 2, when you buy a Hebrew slave he is to serve for six years then the 70th to leave as a free man without paying anything, if you arrives alone he has to leave alone if your rise with the wife his wife is to leave with him, it is Master gives him a wife and she bare him Sons or daughters the wife and her children belong to her master and the man must leave alone but if the slave declares I love my master my wife and my children I do not want to leave as a free man, his master's bring him to the judges and then bring him to the door or doorpost his master will pierce his ear with an awl and he will serve his master for life, when a man sells his daughter as a concubine she is not to leave as the male slaves do, it is just pleasing to her master who choose her for himself then he must let her be redeemed he has no right to sell her to foreigners because he's acted treacherously toward her I think we've read enough, either a. It's still moral for me to sell my daughter into sexual slavery or B, God was responding to the moral code they already had, and was putting it in stone how they should carry out according to their own morality how to take care of it.

 

Pastor Newms:

See now this is where I differ between morality and rules you can have rules that have nothing to do with morality I.

 

Pastor Bill:

Leti informs rules rules are created in response to morality so if a rule is created is a response to a morality.

 

Pastor Newms:

Some not all.

 

Pastor Bill:

God's morality is always the same always the same then this statement about selling my daughter into sexual slavery still, but you and I would both agree it's somebody sold their daughter in a sexual slavery that would be an immoral thing.

 

Pastor Newms:

But what I'm saying is you're drawing a correlation between the rules of the Old Testament which some of them did have to do with morality but some of them did not. The morality is separate from the rules themselves, some rules do not have any morality tied to them explaining to me how I should wear a shirt or my oh Bill froze give me a second.

 

Pastor Bill:

It's not the example I brought up I brought up specifically.

 

Pastor Newms:

I'm aware.

 

Pastor Bill:

Selling your daughter into sexual slavery.

 

Pastor Newms:

But the question I'm posing is is it correct to tie morality to that.

 

Pastor Bill:

How is it not this is clearly a question of morals.

 

Why is God saying this is how you should go about selling your daughter into sexual slavery.

 

Pastor Newms:

Because they were already doing it and so we need to have the rules to allow for it.

 

Pastor Bill:

Okay but they were also already killing their brothers, and cheating their brothers and he said don't be doing that anymore don't don't kill your fellow brother your fellow Israelite don't charge them interest anymore don't do these things these things are wrong.

 

Pastor Newms:

But killing in it of itself isn't wrong there's a rule that separate from the moral of killing. It's wrong to kill that's morality me and you both agree the morality of death is always going to cause an issue but there are rules to win it is allowed, the morality is separate than the rules.

 

Pastor Bill:

You can't separate morality from roles no you really can't.

 

Pastor Newms:

I mean you really can.

 

Pastor Bill:

Create rules in response to morality.

 

Pastor Newms:

Some some you don't.

 

Pastor Bill:

I don't see that I don't see any rule ever any rule or law.

 

Pastor Newms:

The tax code is not in response to morality.

 

Pastor Bill:

The tax code exists in response to morality yeah it does the government wanted to steal from the people so they created a law that allowed them to steal from the people. It's an immoral law it's an anti morality movement but it exists.

 

Pastor Newms:

No see that's the problem with dealing with Morality In the way cuz you're trying to Define morality as a set of rules but morality isn't a set of rules you are.

 

Pastor Bill:

I've not seen as a set of rules I'm saying you create rules that because they are informed by your morality.

 

Pastor Newms:

I'm trying to understand what Tina what Zaydie just wrote how is their morality to death death is death no matter how you die no it's not it's not so if I come at Billiam with a knife to stab him in the gut, right that is an intention of breaking something if I'm holding a knife and Billiam trips across the room, and falls on it I did not kill him I did kill him but I did not kill him there's a rule the morality is you shouldn't kill there's a rule to protect, when the intent around it is different. Now as big said Jesus blood covers our sins which is not exactly, where and why we're discussing morality as a whole because yes Jesus blood covered all, of our sins of course but morality defines what is sin because morality defines what is, wrong because morality is right and wrong not necessarily the rules attached to it. Now. I will say this if you notice there's a poster behind me right here. I believe there is absolute morality because there are ingrained in US certain things that we know are morally wrong, every faith has certain beliefs that are set for example. In Romans 2:15. The Gentiles who do not by Nature have the law, do what the law demands they are law to themselves even though they do not have the law they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts their conscience has confirmed this they're caught they're competing thoughts either accused, even excuse them on the day that God judges what the people have kept secret according to the gospel through Jesus now to me that reads, everyone has a morality, written into them after the eating of the fruit because the fruit was the knowledge of Good and Evil, that in of itself sorry every time I open up anything full screen billions face starts shaking, crazily for no good reason because teams broke itself again after what I fixed, I hate technology some days so I believe that we do have a morality because that that is ingrained in US. And I think a lot of us have a moral code that is ingrained now, that being said the problem comes into play with two factors in that one what everyone considers morality not everyone else would consider morality which I would agree with you is relative morality, because there are some things that are as that verse says written on humans Hearts some things we know, our room overall but the majority of everything, he's relative morality but I believe some things are. Unless you're sociopath and if we want to talk to that conversation we can but that's a whole nother rabbit stream because they're never going to have any form of morality because, sociopathic they don't have feelings so it's different.

 

Pastor Bill:

So

 

Pastor Newms:

Congratulations Billiam this is the first time we have received a hundred messages in one chat.

 

Pastor Bill:

Salvation okay is it absolutely. So no matter what you do you won't lose your salvation.

 

Pastor Newms:

I don't believe so.

 

Pastor Bill:

In all morality is relative because once you become saved there is no wrong, you can do in the eyes of God.

 

Pastor Newms:

Well.

 

Pastor Bill:

You cannot lose your righteousness you cannot lose your salvation.

 

Pastor Newms:

That's the question is it because our morality or is it because the blood covering us. That's the question that's the Crux of the argument that, you and I could have let's be honest I have play Devil's Advocate a little bit more than I normally do tonight just because.

 

Pastor Bill:

Hard to man.

 

Pastor Newms:

It's fun well usually I go so light you actually said are you going to play Devil's Advocate on this one and I wait, I mean I can I can go full Baptist and go a whole route of things that I was taught that I no longer even closely believed in but I didn't go that far but I do believe there is, a absolute morality now this is the difference that we might actually have and in our difference I believe is an, of Simply, semantics and word choice not necessarily belief system and zadie the question of can you lose it through blasphemy the question is, that's a very interesting aspect because most some people would believe blasphemy of the holy spirit is the never accepting not that you can blaspheme after.

 

Pastor Bill:

Well you could bless him ask her but according to Paul that would be evidence that you never truly believe.

 

Pastor Newms:

So but that's that's that's the Crux of the argument between the two of us and we often have similar things like this is it that morality is different person to person, after salvation or is it that morality no longer matters after salvation.

 

Pastor Bill:

So final thoughts my cake on morality absolute or relative is that morality, that when God looks at humanity and holds us to morality that. Culture is a very big part of that like it's huge because God is all about the heart, and if you're raised in a certain culture all your life God is going to take that into account when he sets up this moral code between you and himself, and that's what we talked about you know we had this personal relationship with God and we're going to be judge on a personal basis, God is going to judge us according to us according to our life God isn't going to compare me to, and go will Newms was better than you so you failed he's not going to do that he's gonna compare me to the way I was raised to my cultural standards to all the things that I went through and that's a judgment that I'm going to go, and I believe it's important that we stop teaching absolute morality absolutely because even Newms said, it's absolute morality on a small list of things and everything else is relative but what the church has been teaching is that morality is absolutely absolute absolutely all the time.

 

Pastor Newms:

And that's a huge issue.

 

Pastor Bill:

And that's what's confusing people, because they look back through the Bible and they read things about slavery they read things about selling your daughter into sexual slavery they read things about God commanding armies to go white people out they read things that, does it make sense to them that absolute morality absolutely all the time, would allow certain people to do things that they find morally irresponsible your. So what we need to be teaching is that God wants. And God will deal with you on a one-on-one basis, and you're not answering to the god of hell fire and brimstone that someone else answers to, you're answering to the god of sheep and it's all the same God he's going to deal with you on a personal basis, if you think it's immoral to do XXX I'm not saying poor thing XYZ just placeholder you think it's immoral to do placeholder then God's going to hold you to that moral thought, if you think it's okay for me to do blah and you truly believe that, then God's going to deal with you on a different basis in that area then he's going to deal with me.

 

Pastor Newms:

Yeah and Paul was a huge proponent of that of you know, I wrote on my board as a joke that you didn't let me get to which was Moral absolutes are very cultural.

 

Pastor Bill:

I hope everybody got that.

 

Pastor Newms:

So um so the aspect of it.

 

Pastor Bill:

Moral absolutes are absolutely relative according to your culture.

 

Pastor Newms:

Exactly you know what Zaidie brought up just now you know Paul teaches you know what is sin for you is that a sin for me which is sin for me Isn't a sin for you I can go do things it don't matter, you know if you feel this is wrong then don't do it, you know the eating of meat sacrificed he was like well if it's wrong then don't do it at the same time he probably has holding a hamburger he's like I'm gonna eat it not in front of you necessarily but.

 

Pastor Bill:

Okay it's a good it's a good kind of worms to open though hard question, she says is that like the freight where the phrase were thought process of well maybe send for you may not be sent for me she said she has trouble grasping that because also isn't Sin like all sin is equal in God's eyes, it's a good can of worms to open because. Thus in my lips did a little thing because I don't eat the sin that you and I are guilty of from birth is the corruption of morality.

 

Pastor Newms:

uHuh.

 

Pastor Bill:

Morality corrupted Adam and Eve and all of their descendants to where we're no longer perfect, that's the sin that we're guilty of okay everything you've done after that, is not heaven or hell sin that's not what you're doing. What you're doing is you're taking on imperfections that make you even less perfect than you already are, and God is perfect and you are not there's only one way for you to become perfect spiritually and that's with your faith and we will all answer, for our own life and the choices that we make not just for our sins this is one of those misnomers you're going to have to answer for all your sins, yeah but the Judgment that is laid out is more like it's kind of like watching a movie, and your commentating okay well you failed there you know you fell do you did a great job there that was awesome that was amazing you did wonderful there oh well you failed there, and the accuser is trying, bill of upon the things that you did wrong to prove that you belong on the outside like he is, and Jesus is going don't know what to tell ya they're covered by My Sacrifice so last night he had that doesn't count against them, so yeah you're going to answer for your sins. That's not the real focus of the Judgment we in our Western mindset have this idea of, that when God judges someone we see a courtroom and we see a judge in the judges passing down a guilty, but when they use this word judge in the Bible it's like.

 

Pastor Newms:

Olympic scoring the word is.

 

Pastor Bill:

It's a better yeah that's a better better.

 

Pastor Newms:

The Greek word is the same word they use for scoring in an Olympics, sorry for your nice little analogy you started to bring it to the picture and then took out of the picture.

 

Pastor Bill:

Yeah that was good it's like Olympics scoring but the sin that you're guilty of, that causes you to be separated from God forever was already committed before you were born, you didn't do it.

 

Pastor Newms:

uHuh.

 

Pastor Bill:

But you can fix it but only because God snapped his fingers and came, only human and fixed it and why would God need to do that because God is Not Omni powerful he's not, he was and then he gave authority to Adam and Eve and their descendants over themselves and over the Earth, limited himself, and therefore could no longer legally snap his fingers, and just undo what Adam and Eve did he couldn't, I see you smirking.

 

Pastor Newms:

It's because again it's it's, the issue I have is not in your point the issue I have is in the diction of the words used he is still all-powerful he just cannot do anything there's a difference.

 

Pastor Bill:

Not to God when God speaks it becomes reality.

 

Pastor Newms:

Yes but what I'm saying is is.

 

Pastor Bill:

Bigg's is typing 2.5 3.5.

 

Pastor Newms:

I think he's showing an Olympic score is what I'm assuming.

 

Pastor Bill:

Okay.

 

Pastor Newms:

Or he's counting the minutes that were late.

 

Pastor Bill:

Well we're five minutes over now so he's kind of minutes that we're late then he's wrong yes we.

 

Pastor Newms:

Yes.

 

Pastor Bill:

Which yes Olympic scoring or minutes. So the thing is when God speaks it becomes reality so when God says you now have authority and he gives up authority over even a micro didn't God is no longer all-powerful, because he gave up Authority all-powerful means he has all authority all power. He can no longer be all-powerful is he gave up a portion of his authority and Power.

 

Pastor Newms:

Well that's a discussion we should have on another day.

 

Pastor Bill:

I don't think we need Pew because if that's not true then the whole deck of cards falls apart.

 

Pastor Newms:

Right but we're at 7:36 right an hour and five minutes and I don't want to open up the can of worms more than I already have with that because I, I feel there is a huge difference between Authority and Power, he has the power to do anything he does not necessarily have the authority to do everything it's different.

 

Pastor Bill:

He doesn't have the power to you or anything everything.

 

Pastor Newms:

Again I think we're arguing over the semantics of the words were using I think we are I do.

 

Pastor Bill:

I don't think we are I don't think so I don't think so.

 

Pastor Newms:

Because we both believe the same thing with this we've talked about it too many times for us to not be on the same page.

 

Pastor Bill:

I don't know.

 

Pastor Newms:

One of us would know huh.

 

Pastor Bill:

I don't know what you're talking about.

 

Pastor Newms:

Yeah exactly but I also know we are very much, on the statement of words are way too important to both of us.

 

Pastor Bill:

I don't understand English correctly I. I who prefer novels written at a college-aged reading level don't understanding this correctly compared to the person who reads novels written for 8th graders.

 

Pastor Newms:

That's a personal choice I still enjoy the others.

 

Pastor Bill:

Buffer 30 second buffer 30 second buffer has it been 30 second chance 30 seconds.

 

Pastor Newms:

Oh pause pause pause pause.

 

Pastor Bill:

Dance.

 

Pastor Newms:

Biggs just brought up the fact that you don't understand English correctly because you were raised in Decatur that's messed up yeah he did.

 

Pastor Bill:

He didn't say that he said he said I'm from Texas.

 

Pastor Newms:

But it's specifically he knows what he meant he was being very rude I'm just saying now you can consider where your song, okay so you guys have a great night be safe we love you what else do you want to say.

 

Pastor Bill:

Until next time.

 

Pastor Newms:

Until next time all right and I'm going to cut over to the weekly episode thing for 10 seconds and then we're going to cut away.

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