S3EP41 - Mawage

Pastor Bill:

[0:14] Hello and welcome to season 3 episode 41 the Berean Manifesto; Faith, Hope, and Love for the Modern Christian. How are you doing Pastor Newms.

 

Pastor Newms:

[0:30] Hey yeah.

 

Pastor Bill:

[0:38] So tonight we're talking about Mawage. Or I guess more specifically we're talking about divorce. I don't know what we're talking about, I just had this section of scripture that was on my heart and so we're going to talk about this section of scripture and I don't know. Biggs is joining us on Twitch. Hey Biggs.

 

[1:12] Which scripture? If you want to pre-read the scriptures that we're going to be in, we're going to be in 1 Corinthians chapter 7 and probably going to start at the beginning of chapter 7, but then the section that's been on my heart, I have no idea why, is verses 10 through 16. So maybe somebody needs to hear it, what we're going to talk about tonight, but it's definitely not me. This is definitely not one of those we're talking about for me, because it's been on my heart to share about this to talk about this so I guess somebody's here I don't know. It's one of those things you know where you like I'm not sure why I'm supposed to say this or I feel like I'm supposed to say something and then like a year later two years later, you get that pay off or somebody's like somebody sent me an episode of your podcast and it totally saved my marriage and that may be wishful thinking but, I don't know.

 

[2:35] If we had more wishful thinking and less doomsday going on right now that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Phoenix is joining us on Twitch HPuffPhoenix she says howdy you say howdy I say hi. To me only two minutes left five minutes gone by fast. Zaidie is with us, Zaidie on Twitch, Zaidie sent me this lovely card this week I'll you can't see it yet I'll show you the card when we go video live..

 

Pastor Newms:

[3:23] I still find it funny you started talking to me about it like I knew what it was.

 

Pastor Bill:

[3:28] And you were like, what I don't know what you talking about.

 

Pastor Newms:

[3:30] I don't know what you're talking about.

 

Pastor Bill:

[3:33] I was like the thing that your.

 

Pastor Newms:

[3:37] Only knew about one thing she sent you I didn't know she sent you a card too she's nicer than I am.

 

[3:50] You know I'm lighting an incense I really should turn around a bit we're really close to time now we got a minute.

 

Pastor Bill:

[4:03] So my "On Air" light came in, yeah so now in the hallway leading to my bedroom / office there's this big red light it says "On Air" that lights up the whole hallway and.

 

Pastor Newms:

[4:20] And we hope it's on right now from under the okay.

 

Pastor Bill:

[4:22] It is I can see the top gap of the door I can see the red light coming through.

 

[4:40] For the next 40 seconds best friend. Your dad says best friends. Who's best friends?

 

[4:56] Just silence as we wait for him to type now. Six, five, four, three, two, one.

 

Pastor Newms:

[5:10] And then bam.

 

Pastor Bill:

[5:15] All right so that first five minutes was to give people time to show up so once again. Hello and welcome to season 3 episode 41 of the Berean Manifesto; Faith, Hope, and Love for the Modern Christian. I'm Pastor Bill,

and as always I'm joined by Pastor Newms all the way from Tennessee. Remember that funny comment we got when we first started doing this this way we get this comment about, church people spreading covid and I was like we're not even in the same state dude how are we spreading covid-19.

 

Pastor Newms:

[5:49] I don't think that you told me about that.

 

Pastor Bill:

[5:52] Oh you don't remember?

 

Pastor Newms:

[5:53] Uh-huh.

 

Pastor Bill:

[5:54] Yeah we got a comment while we we're live, the guy was chiding us about spreading covid by being doing a face-to-face video, Zaidie says OMG having technical difficulties she is or we are you are a we are.

 

Pastor Newms:

[6:12] I don't know is anyone else having technical difficulties.

 

Pastor Bill:

[6:16] Everything looks fine on my end.

 

Pastor Newms:

[6:18] I open it up it says.

 

Pastor Bill:

[6:22] Although I'm really not happy with the way my voice sounds on this setup but there's not really anything I can do about it living out here in the middle of nowhere. Since I got this really nice Blue, Mic has really nice compressor and then I sound like I'm talking on a cell phone by the time it gets sent to you and then is sent out to you know in the signal.

 

Pastor Newms:

[6:49] Bill being delayed happens.

 

Pastor Bill:

[6:53] Yeah I get delayed all the time that's okay so how was your week Pastor Newms?

 

Pastor Newms:

[7:01] It was pretty good I didn't do much other than work we had some training at work and so then I spent the rest of the week trying to catch up from training. But that is really all that happened on my side.

 

Pastor Bill:

[7:27] You also took some time this week to explain to me what you do professionally.

 

Pastor Newms:

[7:31] It is true it is true we've had the conversation several times about you not knowing at all what what I do, and I took some time to explain it and you were like huh.

 

Pastor Bill:

[7:53] It took us it took me I had to step back and take a second to like understand each step but once they once I got through each step it the whole picture made sense and I was like okay I get it now I get it.

 

Pastor Newms:

[8:08] It was it was quite enjoyable to.

 

Pastor Bill:

[8:11] It was interesting it was it was like starting a new job and they were walking me through the first day of training that's what it felt like. And I was like okay cool.

 

Pastor Newms:

[8:22] Well I'm glad you felt that I did that good of a job.

 

Pastor Bill:

[8:26] You did it was nice.

 

Pastor Newms:

[8:28] Not that you said I did a good job I just I just took that you know.

 

Pastor Bill:

[8:33] You did you did a good job their house.

 

Pastor Newms:

[8:35] But yeah so so.

 

Pastor Bill:

[8:41] Anything else about your weight.

 

Pastor Newms:

[8:43] No no I am up and down and in games at the moment and trying not to get, upset with certain situations. Pretty good just blase how was your week.

 

Pastor Bill:

[9:06] My week well we had another week of taking Gerg to school, which means me getting up earlier than I want to every morning and getting him off I'm usually used to waking up between 7:00 and 7:30 and this is got me waking up you know sometime between 6 and 7, and then I like to stay up a little later when the kids go to bed but now I've had to scale that back and go to bed you know shortly after they do and so it's been an interesting adjustment on my.

 

Pastor Newms:

[9:40] Which I don't like that part just on that.

 

Pastor Bill:

[9:42] Yeah me me having to go to bed when you're supposed to you don't like that at all so.

 

Pastor Newms:

[9:49] Cuz I don't like going to bed.

 

Pastor Bill:

[9:50] You don't like going to bed.

 

[10:07] Wednesday we had quite The Adventurous day Tuesday we had to in an adventurous day as a Tuesday, Gerg's roof started leaking while he was at school right onto his mattress so I spent most of Tuesday cleaning up water damage in his bedroom trying to draw out his mattress and draw out the floor and, you know that done before he got home so that he'd actually have no wait.

 

[10:40] That was on Wednesday wasn't it.

 

Pastor Newms:

[10:42] Yeah that was Wednesday you said Wednesday.

 

Pastor Bill:

[10:44] Oh my goodness and then also we had a flat tire on Wednesday, Wednesday was a big day oh my goodness so we had a flat tire went out and I was gonna go pick up Gerg from school and we had a flat tire, so then my body I physically can't really jack up a car anymore and do all the you know breaking of the nuts and all that stuff so my wife unfortunately has had to take over in that area when we have a flat tire but, she went out there and she broke the nuts and she jacked up the car and she went to pull up the spare, only to find that a certain National Tire chain hadn't put our spare back on the car the last time we bought one of their, in my opinion expensive tires, so I had to borrow my grandmother's car and go pick up Gerg, go to Discount Tire and buy a new full-size tire and a new wheel.

 

[11:47] So we could put that on the car so then I can take Gerg to the youth group that he goes to it's about a 45 minute drive away in North Richland Hills, and that was interesting, and then my wife went to Firestone the next day and they were like oh we don't have any of your tires in stock so she went back on Friday when they did have the tires in stock, and then Saturday morning I got to, work on the issue of the spare tire kit you know it's like it's got the one of those metal chords with a shoe on the bottom and you slip the shoe through the middle of the wheel and then you turn it and it, draws the cord up and the tire hangs underneath the back of the car.

 

Pastor Newms:

[12:36] Oh okay.

 

Pastor Bill:

[12:39] So I had to alter the the top of the shoe so that it would fit through the hole with the new tire because the hole on the full-size wheel was smaller than the hole was on the old spare tire, thankfully I had a Dremel and I shaved about a quarter of an inch off the top of that shoe, so that it would fit through the new hole and then I was like please fit please fit please fit and I and I ran it up and it went all the way up and it fits in between the two Mufflers like there's mufflers and then there's heat shielding, and then there's like half an inch in between the Heat shielding on either side to the tire and I was like well it just fits but it fits.

 

Pastor Newms:

[13:24] Uh-huh uh-huh and big.

 

Pastor Bill:

[13:28] So that was my weekend in a nutshell.

 

Pastor Newms:

[13:30] Biggs pointed out you know soon as you started talking car stuff the look on my face just glosses over because I realize I didn't realize it because I don't do any car stuff and I'm just like uh huh.

 

Pastor Bill:

[13:44] You don't do any handy self car stuff house stuff that you're not a you're not a jack man you're just I'm a jack of all trades which means I know a little bit about almost everything but not enough to charge anybody to do it just enough to do it for myself, and then I fill any gaps in my knowledge with you know YouTube just like anybody else.

 

Pastor Newms:

[14:12] Oh that's something I did this week we put together another 2000 piece puzzle in like two and a half days three days. Whole bunch of people were working on it last night and.

 

Pastor Bill:

[14:28] I stopped doing puzzles when I realize is that trying to focus on each individual piece and where they go makes me sick to my stomach, I just I can't do it man, I can't do it Biggs says master of none yeah that's that's the phrase jack of all trades master of none, that's that's pretty much my life in a nutshell, people like you know when I say things like you know I need I need a job they'll say what industry do you work in and I'm like, any industry that pays I've done lots of stuff and I'm willing to learn how to do anything else, oh well we don't have a job for someone like you I just told you I would do anything anything at a desk I'll do it I'm sorry we don't have a job.

Do you remember that one time that I asked a job agency you know one of those those placement agencies to find me a job, and I filled out all the stuff and getting my resume and all this stuff and two months later they contacted me and said we're removing you from the program because no suitable job for you exists.

 

Pastor Newms:

[15:40] No I didn't remember that that's um that's an experience.

 

Pastor Bill:

[15:48] That's quite the experience no suitable job for you. Thanks job placement company.

 

Pastor Newms:

[15:58] Isn't it your whole job to find, okay.

 

Pastor Bill:

[16:02] Yeah yeah that's pretty much my life in a nutshell right there, right? Joe Jack of all trades master of none. But when I do find a job easily find a job you know low and then I very quickly worked my way up, into positions that they wouldn't dream of even interviewing me for before I entered the company so that's pretty much how my life has been you know shoot low and then, take a couple of months and prove myself and work my way up. Okay so I think we're sufficiently warmed up except we didn't do gets another pastors.

 

Pastor Newms:

[16:51] Oh crap is it mine or yours I think it's yours.

 

Pastor Bill:

[16:54] It's an odd numbered episode which means it's mine.

 

Pastor Newms:

[16:56] And plus we did like six of mine last week because they were not great he's taking too long reading this is a problem.

 

Pastor Bill:

[17:10] It says what's your recurring nightmare.

 

Pastor Newms:

[17:18] That's not appropriate so we need to switch cards because both of us have very very bad nightmares and we can't talk about them on we go get flag somewhere for something if we start talking about our nightmares let's just begin.

 

Pastor Bill:

[17:34] If you were to die tomorrow what little thing would you regret not doing.

 

Pastor Newms:

[18:01] Little thing.

 

Pastor Bill:

[18:03] It says little thing I'll go first so you remember when we met.

 

Pastor Newms:

[18:11] I mean yes yes.

 

Pastor Bill:

[18:11] You and I that weekend okay so that weekend Seth and I, Seth Rouggly from California we were there together.

 

Pastor Newms:

[18:20] Although I don't remember him at all which is funny.

 

Pastor Bill:

[18:24] Which is funny yeah because you met me at the same time you met him and you don't remember him.

 

Pastor Newms:

[18:28] Yeah no.

 

Pastor Bill:

[18:30] Um Okay so Sunday morning he wanted to go to the church and he and I had gone to while we were in The Internship. I was trying to impress this girl who had become an intern and I had been volunteering the summer before so I met her while she was a volunteer and then she became an intern and she wanted me to go to her church, and we were both determined we were going to spend the whole weekend together, and I convinced him to go to her church with me instead of me going to the church we had gone to like he wanted to, and to this day I think about that probably no less than once a week and regret that moment where I chose my own personal desire, over the values of my friend.

 

[19:29] Such a small decision well.

 

[19:45] Phoenix.

 

Pastor Newms:

[19:47] Always always with her I would say it would have to be, so this is going to be really weird I think something I would regret is there their stories I haven't finished.

 

Pastor Bill:

[20:03] Mmm he stopped time.

 

Pastor Newms:

[20:05] Be it in in bit in games or in books there's I have a tendency to just forget, and then like then I'll I'll realize it and be like and, I think that would be a very large one for me is stories I would regret store a story I hadn't finished and I can think of several I could add to that list but there are lots of stories I haven't finished.

 

Pastor Bill:

[20:34] I have the problem of coming up with an idea for a story, and thinking through the story and experiencing the story in my head from start to finish and then going and that was a good story I'm glad I went through that,

and not writing it down and not sharing it with anybody or starting to write down and then life you know and just not writing down the rest of it and I'm like man that was a good story.

 

Pastor Newms:

[21:05] Dat is silly, dat is very silly. you do do that.

 

Pastor Bill:

[21:13] Mmm it's funny that Phoenix brings up you her reintroducing us because our relationship is very funny like that because I met your wife, the summer before I went into Teen Mania's internship. And then the next summer I volunteered and met a bunch of people that you then new your internship year. And then we met that fall I know you meant the full before I volunteered I'm at the fall sorry I got my things mixed, I met your wife the summer of 2000 then we met in the fall of.

 

Pastor Newms:

[22:02] We met 2002 because my internship was 2002-2003.

 

Pastor Bill:

[22:09] Okay then 2002 so I did volunteer yeah that's right I volunteered that summer.

 

Pastor Newms:

[22:18] And then after also.

 

Pastor Bill:

[22:22] No I guess I met you the year after Seth and I went to the wrong church on Sunday morning. I definitely was with Seth when you and I met because we came to Teen Mania more than one more than one alumni reunions anyway.

 

Pastor Newms:

[22:39] I know when you did you did not live in Texas I think.

 

Pastor Bill:

[22:49] No that's not right so you're anyway you and I meet I meet your wife and then I meet in 2000 then I meet you in 2002 and then. That is a myth that's not right then how did your sister introduced.

 

Pastor Newms:

[23:13] In 2003 when you volunteered.

 

[23:22] Because I.

 

Pastor Bill:

[23:23] That the year I volunteered.

 

Pastor Newms:

[23:24] Because I was at the internship from August 2002, my first year August 2002 to August 2003 and then my second year was 2003 2004. And then we met again in 2005.

 

Pastor Bill:

[23:52] Huh. Anyway the point is we kept randomly meeting, I met your wife I met you I met your sister your sister was like oh man you and my brother would get along change your juice me to you and then we had already met,

and then you move to Keller or you had already moved to Keller.

 

Pastor Newms:

[24:13] Yep I moved to well then I graduated and I moved to Keller you.

 

Pastor Bill:

[24:19] Which is like right down the road for me.

 

Pastor Newms:

[24:21] Yep and you were in California somewhere in there, and then I ran into you at another alumni weekend when you had moved back and that's when then. We we stopped not talking.

 

Pastor Bill:

[24:45] Right.

 

[24:51] And then Zaidie is like yeah and then I re-met your wife at your wedding the funny thing is I kept seeing pictures of her, in all your stuff and I was like I know this girl, I know this girl where do I know this girl from I know this girl and we kept comparing all the times that I had been to Teen Mania and with all the times that you had remembered she was there and I was like, no we never cross paths at Teen Mania not in all those times.

 

[25:27] Yeah so many paths Crossing and intertwining and, it's me all right so, like we said in the the warm-up if you weren't here for the warm-up that's fine we're going to say it again we are in 1 Corinthians chapter 7 tonight and for a while I've had on my heart to talk about, to share about 1st Corinthians chapter 7 verses 10 through 16 which, has nothing to do with my life whatsoever in any way but we're gonna talk about it and when I brought it up to Newms that I thought this is what we were going to talk about he went and read it and he was like that's bizarre, why are we going to talk about that and I was like I don't know.

 

Pastor Newms:

[26:20] Okay so let's pause the podcast for moment and our discussion, and and point out the fact that Newms has never said that's bizarre but I'll let you go ahead and continue.

 

Pastor Bill:

[26:36] You did to set you did too yeah you said it was bizarre.

 

[26:48] Phoenix says what version is it going to be read in well the answer to that will almost always be CSB, what version it's going to be read in, unless we say otherwise so 1 Corinthians chapter 7 you're welcome Phoenix she says thanks on Twitch 1 Corinthians chapter 7 where to start in verse 1, Paul writes all right 1 Corinthians 7 now in response to the matters you wrote about, it is good for a man not to use a woman for sex I think we all agree you shouldn't be you know abusing a woman, in this manner you shouldn't be taking advantage of her for sex and he goes on but because sexual immorality is so common, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife and each woman should have sexual relations with her own husband, husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife and likewise a wife to her husband, a wife does not have the right over her own body but her husband does in the same way because a lot of a lot of churches stop right there.

 

Pastor Newms:

[28:13] Yeah they do.

 

Pastor Bill:

[28:14] In the same way a husband does not have the right over his. But his wife does awesome here we go and this that verse right there that's why I say, I belong to my wife Roxanne, Roxanne belongs to me I trust her to take care of her belongings talking about me just like she trusts me to take care of my belongings, I value her I treasure her I take care of her those are my duties as a husband okay verse 5 of chapter 7, do not deprive one another except when you agree for a time to devote yourselves to prayer then come together again otherwise Satan May tempt you because of your lack of self-control, I say this as a concession not as a command I wish that all people were as I am but each has his own gift from God one person has this gift another has that.

 

[29:19] Paul if you're confused by that statement Paul was a bachelor, he never got married the closest thing he ever had to and I was talking to Newms about this earlier the closest thing he ever had to a romantic relationship was the way he felt about Israel, and the Jewish people that was the closest thing to a girlfriend he ever has and you can see it in his writing, the way he talks about Israel the way he, admires the structure of it and longs for Israel and her people to join him in Salvation and.

 

[30:04] Interesting stuff all right so we're picking back up in verse. I say to the unmarried and to widows it is good for them if they remain as I am, but if they do not have self-control they should marry since it is better to marry than to burn with desire, verse 10 to the married I give this command now this is the portion that's been on my heart I have no idea for months I've no idea why to the married I give this command not I but the Lord, a wife is not to leave her husband, but if she does leave she must remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband and a husband is not to divorce his wife, but I not the Lord now this is Paul giving his opinion right his opinion is an educated opinion,

he knows all the jurors law he knows like the he basically has the Old Testament memorized this is Paul's.

 

[31:13] I not the Lord say to the rest if any brother has an unbelieving wife and she is willing to live with him he must not divorce her, also if any woman has an unbelieving husband and he is willing to live with her she must not divorce her, for the unbelieving husband is made Holy by the wife and the unbelieving wife is made Holy by the, otherwise your children would be unclean but as it is they are holy, but if the unbeliever leaves let him leave a brother or sister is not bound in such cases, God has called you to live in peace wife, for all you know you might save your husband husband for all you know you might save your wife.

 

[32:14] All right so the weird thing that that Newms and I have been discussing, is these this stuff in verse 14 to verse 16 we have no idea what Paul means here, and given the commentaries and even my commentaries that usually pretty much agree with each other, on what the heck Paul is talking about here, um for the unbelieving husband is made Holy by the wife and the unbelieving wife is made Holy by the husband and your children are made Holy by you being a Believer and, the wife might be saved by the husband husband saved by the wife we can somewhat assume that verse 16, means at some point because of the life you're living you'll lead your spouse to Salvation. Been put in that after verse 14 where he says the unbelieving husband is made Holy by the believing wife, confuses the heck out of my Western culture modern American brain because when I think of holy I think of salvation.

 

[33:40] What does that mean from a Jewish standpoint what did that mean from a Corinthian standpoint to say that something was holy.

 

Pastor Newms:

[33:48] And and to be clear I mean the word that's used in the, is straight up like sanctification like it's it's it's to be made clean to be made whole it's not like oh well maybe this is strange because I'm like, it's got to be translated and I'm like holy is Holy is weird there let's look at what word it is oh, so it's the same word that you used three almost almost 300 times in, the New Testament for Holy so this isn't even like one of those situations where it's like this is the only time he uses this word.

 

Pastor Bill:

[34:29] And one of the commentaries I was looking at pointed me to Romans chapter 11 verse 16, as being synonymous the idea being synonymous with what this is saying and it says now if the first fruits are holy, so is the whole batch and if the root is Holy so are the branches. And in this place Paul is talking about and you really see a lot of his, love interest in Israel shining through and in Romans chapter 11 he's talking about, Israel's rejection of Jesus wasn't a total failure for them as far as salvation is concerned, and Gentiles should be thankful, that the Jewish people rejected Christ because it opened the door for the Gentiles to have salvation in order to make Israel jealous so that they would find Salvation. And.

 

Pastor Newms:

[35:48] It's a that's that's another one of those passages that that some people tend to gloss over because they're like I'm not touching any of this there's definitely some of that in this.

 

Pastor Bill:

[36:05] Okay and then there's this other thing about your children, your children would be unclean but as it is their holy what does it mean to say your child is Holy, and when I know you know we talked about it Newms and I have it a lot of denominations a lot of sects of Christianity have grabbed that as this whole age of accountability thing, if you're you have a parent or both parents that are saved then when the child is born they're automatically save, and then they started doing child baptisms as part of the whole well the child's already saved because they're the children of Believers but the Bible never actually, says that.

 

Pastor Newms:

[36:58] Yeah it is definitely one of those so like growing up in and throughout my own time I've always took it to mean you know, harkening back to the raise a child in the way it should go and it will not depart you know I've always kind of taken it to mean similar, but it's still the way it's worded that's not, what it says it might be what it means because of situations and things were not understanding because of the Church of Corinth what you know what people in the Church of Corinth he was writing to specifically or there could be a situation that we don't you know some Jewish context we don't know, because it is funny like you mentioned a lot of times even with the Jewish context people are just like oh it's this, and everyone's like oh yeah yeah I agree with him it's that and on this one it's like, yeah one of the commentaries I use was just blank straight up I clicked on the passage and it was blank.

 

Pastor Bill:

[38:18] Two of mine are blank on this passage.

 

Pastor Newms:

[38:20] And I was like you know a passage is interesting when the dude writing the book on the book was just like a.

 

Pastor Bill:

[38:28] No, I ain't touching it.

 

Pastor Newms:

[38:29] I'm going to get in trouble for somewhere and I'm just not even going to go there and so it's definitely an interesting, you know we look at some of you know certain aspects of Christianity and. Even with the scriptures and the Holy Spirit directing us and such we there are some things that are just confusing, and I know, and to me that's what this is one of those situations because I've never like we could make some positions like we've made you know we believe it's this or I believe it's this you believe it's that you know, but it's another one of those where because of the language difference is the cultural difference is all the differences it's real hard, to know what was truly meant by Paul in this and then one of the things that you said when we were discussing this earlier was I really just wish some days I could just sit down with Paul and be like dude, what did you mean cuz.

 

Pastor Bill:

[39:36] Yeah explain this to me because I have.

 

Pastor Newms:

[39:38] Feel right like I.

 

Pastor Bill:

[39:40] I'm obviously missing something here give me a give me a Rosetta Stone a key to decipher what you're saying or something.

 

Pastor Newms:

[39:50] And sometimes in situations like this I wonder if we had all of Paul's writings maybe it would help.

 

Pastor Bill:

[40:02] The Bible would be like 10 times as long.

 

Pastor Newms:

[40:06] I know I know I know I know it's impossible I know I get it there's a reason that you know the church.

 

Pastor Bill:

[40:13] It would be volumes and be like here's my Bible volumes 1 through 7.

 

Pastor Newms:

[40:16] I know I know I know but it's just.

 

Pastor Bill:

[40:17] Um number 1 has the Old Testament and all of the New Testament writings except for Pauls and here is.

 

Pastor Newms:

[40:26] Every letter he wrote in its but sometimes it's just like I know that there's something somewhere.

 

[40:38] Beware and who who has it so this is one of those situations where we have to rely on faith you know it's,

yeah we have.

 

Pastor Bill:

[40:53] The Bible says we need no teacher but the Holy Spirit.

 

Pastor Newms:

[40:58] So there's times where it's like okay and and again you know this passage specifically is rougher to me because you know one of the things.

 

Pastor Bill:

[41:12] Is that a word, rougher?

 

Pastor Newms:

[41:15] I think it is.

 

Pastor Bill:

[41:16] Isn't it more rough.

 

Pastor Newms:

[41:19] I mean it's rougher.

 

Pastor Bill:

[41:22] Rougher doesn't sound right.

 

Pastor Newms:

[41:24] Yeah no comparative adjective is rougher.

 

Pastor Bill:

[41:29] Okay ruff.

 

Pastor Newms:

[41:36] According to Oxford Oxford it is I don't know man.

 

Pastor Bill:

[41:48] I'm sorry I derailed you.

 

Pastor Newms:

[41:53] What is what was it where was it, oh this one's rougher because you know we have a conversation often about you know, in Christianity and the capital c Church some things matter and other things, don't matter as much like you know you've got these denominations that fight over you know the littlest craziest thing and you're just like why why are we arguing or I'm better than this person because my left toe never does this or you know I'm better than this person because my right hand does that you know there's all these things in Christianity sometimes wear Even in our own sects we argue about him, and so often we're like okay the important parts are, Jesus you know the core tenets of the faith those are what's important and then everything else is well we're getting through it together you know.

 

Pastor Bill:

[43:04] And you hear you hear crazy stories like the church that the story of I'm going to say that the story of because I don't know if it's true or if it's was made up or to illustrate a point, but the story of the small Baptist Church that split over the color of the new what new carpet they should get and, they narrowed it down to two colors at half the church supporter one color and half the church supported the other color, and one day one of the representatives of one of the colors that had enough and they showed up with chainsaws and cut the church in half and loaded their half onto a trailer, and took it to the other side of town.

 

Pastor Newms:

[43:47] I mean I could see it happening people are weird but this is one of those situations where, what makes it rougher for me is this is about sanctification and this is about I mean the words used are the same words that are used in other very important.

 

Pastor Bill:

[44:07] Salvation.

 

Pastor Newms:

[44:09] Scriptures and you know so it's one of those words like huh but, to me you know it's one of those things where it's it's still a personal relationship and even if, you are so much more percentage likely to follow because your parent does or your spouse does or your you know, things.

 

Pastor Bill:

[44:38] One of my commentaries and I had to say it that way because I have one two three four five six seven eight now that I go to for stuff but one of them said, that it wasn't firsthand salvation but this is what's known as secondhand salvation, that the husband is receiving salvation because of the wife salvation because when they entered into Covenant they became one, and so her salvation then saves him because they are one was what this one commentary had to say about it.

 

Pastor Newms:

[45:16] Yeah Matthew Henry had some interesting things to say on it cuz he said similar things but used much more more graphic language about.

 

Pastor Bill:

[45:24] More graphic language and for the eighteen hundreds he was not approved man.

 

Pastor Newms:

[45:30] Acts that caused the joining of the spirit it was like oh.

 

Pastor Bill:

[45:36] I bet the church fathers hated when Matthew Henry released his commentary.

 

Pastor Newms:

[45:42] I I never expected in a commentary that has nothing to do with, certain areas of the Bible to have the word copulation in it.

 

Pastor Bill:

[45:55] Copulation.

 

Pastor Newms:

[45:56] Copulation, yeah I was like what Henry calm down Mr. Henry come on now like woo.

 

Pastor Bill:

[46:03] I wish I love I love Matthew Henry's writings I wish that he had lived long enough to finish his full commentary, he he died of a heart attack they didn't know it as heart attack or stroke he did have a stroke they didn't know it as stroke then they knew it as, bulging veins or something something like that he died of stroke and he had these two apprentices that went back through his notes on sermons that he had preached and then finishes commentaries for him based off of notes that he had preached and they just don't have the same gusto as the Matthew Henry that you're talking about right now you know, they're like a photocopy they don't like the original texture of the pen on paper.

 

Pastor Newms:

[46:55] He was a very. He had very strong beliefs and and a lot of his writings are very passionate.

 

Pastor Bill:

[47:06] And he didn't like Catholics and he didn't favor Jews in anyway he didn't hate Jews he did not hate Jews at all.

 

Pastor Newms:

[47:12] That's one way to say it no no he wasn't one of.

 

Pastor Bill:

[47:17] He didn't favor Jews, definitely takes every opportunity to rail against the Catholic church and sometimes it is just straight funny to read Matthew Henry's commentaries.

 

Pastor Newms:

[47:29] And some of it's like um that one's a little far.

 

Pastor Bill:

[47:33] I don't know why we started talking about Matthew Henry's commentaries instead of what we're supposed to be talking about I mean I know what path led us there but I don't know why we entertained it.

 

Pastor Newms:

[47:42] Because we both like Matthew Henry.

 

Pastor Bill:

[47:45] Yeah we do he's so good alright so let's talk about divorce okay because, in verse 10 of chapter 7 however Paul says to the married I give this command not I but the Lord wife is not to leave her husband, but if she does leave she must remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband and a husband is not to divorce his wife, okay. I want to make it very clear. That it is not the opinion of the Ekklesian House or the Berean Manifesto, Or myself or even Pastor news, I'm going to speak for you, that this is anything other than in the most ideal of situations. Okay in the most of Ideal situations a wife is not to leave her husband.

 

[49:01] But there are grounds for divorce, there are grounds given in the Old Testament, there are grounds given that just common sense okay and I don't want to hear any of this, stuff I've been hearing from certain people online about, well why should just let herself get hit one or two times and and the third time go to church no the first time a husband or a wife treats their spouse as anything other than treasured. That's a problem that's a.

 

[49:57] I'm not, those of you that are into BDSM those of you that are kinky those of you that have a healthy copulation life. And within the confines of consent you have some stuff going on I'm not talking about that.

I'm talking about abuse. Actual non-consensual abuse okay that is grounds and let's talk about a little bit about why I feel that way. Let's turn back just verse Corinthians chapter 7 and let's look at verse 4, It says.

 

[50:55] Let's back up one verse, a husband should fulfill his marital Duty to his wife and likewise the wife to her. Paul is talking about more than just copulation why.

 

Pastor Newms:

[51:16] Just because I brought it up at with Matthew Henry and Matthew Henry it's now it's just it's one of those things it's yeah.

 

Pastor Bill:

[51:24] Okay and then verse for a wife does not have the right over her own body but her husband does in the same way a husband does not have the right over his own body but his wife does, in that dynamic, of the wife owns the husband and the husband owns the wife okay, that should create an equal. Well you're both taking care of each other but when one of those two starts to abuse the other. It's no longer an equal owning it now becomes slavery.

 

[52:21] Joining you said again if one spouse is abusing the other. And they're not they don't have that symbiosis equal equality going on this has become slavery, the wife has become a slave of the husband and the husband,

is treating the wife as a slave, physically abusing verbally abusing this is how you treat a slave not a spouse and vice versa if the wife is physically verbally abusive. Then it's become slavery All Right Turn the Page chapters First Corinthians chapter 7 verse.

 

[53:16] Because certain verse 20 Let each of you remain in the situation in which he was called were you cold while slave. Don't let it concern you but if you can become free by all means take the opportunity. Now we will reply.

Abuse physical verbal to the Old Testament and look at the law that Moses gave.

 

[53:50] If a husband started treating his wife as a slave that is under Jewish law tantamount to what is called putting her away. You are no longer married. But you have certain duties to that person as long as they want you to continue to take care of them. That is a soft divorce, that the man entered into because he became abusive. And the same thing if the woman became abusive a man could put her away to soft divorce and then if they decided.

They can have a full divorce. God as far as we can tell from inspired writing is not a fan of divorce. But also.

 

[55:10] 1st Corinthians chapter 7 verse 15 the last sentence in that verse God has called you to live in peace. God is not a fan abuse God is not a fan of committing to one person to be their property to, fulfill yourself with them to fulfill them and in going around and sleeping with other people. That is not a fan of that now I know polyamory. Making a big comeback right now I've always been taught if if both people in the marriage are sword.

 

Pastor Newms:

[56:11] Consensual.

 

Pastor Bill:

[56:12] Consensual to what's going on, it's fine so if you have an open marriage or a polyamorous whatever. Just like anything else that's between you and God I don't need to know that I don't care to know that please don't email me, please don't ask what you're doing is between you and God like I said the holy spirit is your teacher, um and and in God doesn't like divorce.

 

[56:58] If you need to leave you need to leave, and I'm telling you it is my personal opinion not going to speak for Pastor Newms this time, it is my personal opinion that if your spouse abuses you physically verbally, unconsensually abuses you then that person has already spiritually divorced you. And you are now living with them outside of marriage because they've already divorced you you're no longer their spouse and their heart. And you need to decide do you need to get out of there.

 

Pastor Newms:

[57:43] Yeah because there's definitely there's definitely. One of the problems with Western culture and Eastern culture to a degree now is, we've turned marriage not into something between us and God I mean us meaning husband and wife and God we've turned it into a governmental contract.

 

Pastor Bill:

[58:13] And it has nothing to do with the government or shouldn't.

 

Pastor Newms:

[58:15] It has nothing to do with government and and so there's that whole thing one of the things we were talking about earlier.

 

Pastor Bill:

[58:21] Sorry let me rephrase what I just said, it does have something to do with the government the government should recognize your marriage the government shouldn't be what legitimizes your marriage.

 

Pastor Newms:

[58:37] Yes, and you know we were talking earlier there are there are people because of our Health crisis, who are having to make a decision do we stay married or do I get health benefits do we stay married and you pay all my debt when I die because I have cancer or do we get a divorce, you know there's, because of the government controlling marriage the way they have its created some very interesting, aspects that make it a lot harder to, as Pastor Bill was saying it's talked about in the Old Testament of putting someone away or you know things like that is not as easy, as you know which is good, to a certain degree but then really bad in a lot of situations and you know I've definitely heard people say oh well you should just stay with that person no matter what it's like well there's there's there's some, there are some situations where you need to go and you know so it's definitely something that has to be looked at, and it definitely is something you have to you know.

 

Pastor Bill:

[1:00:06] And you hear about it all the time oh I love them I stay with them because they can change they can get better well I want to tell you they can get better while you're in.

 

Pastor Newms:

[1:00:17] Yeah.

 

Pastor Bill:

[1:00:19] They can take care of their drinking problem without you around it's just, truth honesty like don't stay and put yourself in danger.

 

Pastor Newms:

[1:00:32] Yeah.

 

Pastor Bill:

[1:00:33] Because oh will they need they need to change and they can I have faith in them I believe in them that's that's fine and good have faith in them and believe in them from a distance, let them know I support you but now I'm not safe here.

 

Pastor Newms:

[1:00:53] And it's.

 

Pastor Bill:

[1:00:53] And and and things have gone bad for other people if you want to know how they've gone bad go Google Lorena Bobbitt, and see an issue about a woman saying because she loved her husband and at some point she snapped. And things went very wrong for him she wasn't safe to say and then he became unsafe because she stayed.

 

Pastor Newms:

[1:01:27] I can't believe that's where you went, you know I always end the thing with be safe and I think it's time we go ahead and say that because I have nothing and nowhere I can go. To follow Lorena Bobbitt in any spiritual way I cannot.

 

Pastor Bill:

[1:01:55] Anyway ever bother.

 

Pastor Newms:

[1:02:12] Like four times today we've killed General chat in the game we play anyway it's definitely something that, you know you have to there are reasons to leave, and when those reasons arrive you have to do the smart thing whether you want to or not especially if there's children involved you have to be safe, and then secondarily in other situations it's when it's not a safety aspect you've got to take that to God and, you know through the Holy Spirit through counseling through whatever it is make the decision and. You know stick with it but it's definitely not something that's never allowed like some people teach that's craziness and unsafe and the.

 

Pastor Bill:

[1:03:18] I wish everyone that was married could be married safely happily forever I do I wish that for everyone I really do, we live in a fallen world we live in a harsh world and we live in a reality where it's reality. All right that's all we have for tonight so.

 

Pastor Newms:

[1:03:47] Now you start singing.

 

Pastor Bill:

[1:03:49] Not yet if you want to join us live when we recorded this podcast we meet on Sunday evenings at 6:30 p.m. Central Standard Time and so on Sundays you could come and join us on Facebook, YouTube, or Twitch and,

last laugh when we laugh like when things like Lorna Bobbitt come up and then you can, get on the chat and join us like we've got Biggs and HPuffPhoenix and Zaidie all joining us on Twitch.

 

[1:04:20] Um and Biggs is saying he's laughing so hard he can't type right now and so you could join us live on Sunday evenings at 6:30 p.m. Central Standard time when we record this can go to our website to find out which Facebook, YouTube and Twitch channels those are our website ekk.house we've got our podcast there and we've got some great info there, you can go check that out we'd love for you to do that and this podcast comes out every Wednesday night at 7 p.m. Well that is if we record a new episode we don't always but most Sundays we record a new episode, and on those weeks as it comes on at 7 p.m. and it goes live to you know anywhere that you listen to podcasts so, please consider joining us please consider I can't believe I'm about to say this please consider making a donation if you would like, we are a non-profit and so we are supported by donations and it's weird that that came up because we.

 

[1:05:27] We don't ask as a general rule we don't ask but you know it just came out so they up and.

 

[1:05:39] We love you guys and we love doing this and I'm glad that you're hearing this and I hope we can help I hope this, and it's not about you know we've talked about it Newms and I it's not about, getting a bunch of numbers in the stats and it's not about becoming famous or making money and and these things that you see other people using multimedia that have done, for us it's all about who can we help, even if it's just one person how can we love how can we Inspire love a really is our Focus to bring faith hope and love, to Modern Christians and with that we go into the, 30 second buffer 30 second buffer, 30 second buffer has it been 30 seconds yet of course not that's not how seconds work 30 second buffer 30 second buffer 30 second buffer have a great week.

 

Pastor Newms:

[1:06:53] Be safe out there love you guys.

 

Pastor Bill:

[1:06:57] Until next time.

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