S3EP47 - Forgiveness

Pastor Bill:

[0:03] Hello and welcome to Season 3 Episode 47 of the Berean Manifesto; Faith, Hope, and Love for the Modern Christian. In tonight's episode we are talking about forgiveness and I've got Pastor Newms with me from Tennessee. Say hi Pastor Newms.

 

Pastor Newms:

Hi Pastor Newms.

 

Pastor Bill:

The people on the podcast can't hear you.

 

Pastor Newms:

Prove it.

 

Pastor Bill:

They can hear you, they can't see you when you smile they can't ya see you smile.

 

Pastor Newms:

Prove it.

 

Pastor Bill:

So as always, we are recording this live on a Sunday evening, we record a live every Sunday evening at 6:30 p.m. Central Standard Time  Pastor Newms wants to add a caveat on to that what's.

 

Pastor Newms:

[0:50] To point out that it is October 3rd, and I know it was October 3rd because one day he asked me what day it was and I told him it was October third I just realized my New Worlds audio is coming across and so people just heard in the the thing a bunch of punches and you won't be able to edit it out so.

 

Pastor Bill:

[1:11] Punches and birds and stuff cool okay I'll have some.

 

Pastor Newms:

[1:14] Yeah so have fun with that because I launch the game and was just standing somewhere so that way it's ready to play after because of the queue times and then I'm like.

 

Pastor Bill:

[1:28] You're going to take that audio out for the rest of the time we're together right okay.

 

Pastor Newms:

[1:32] Yeah cut it off already it's off it's just it it's one of those things.

 

Pastor Bill:

[1:38] So how was your week Pastor Newms?

 

Pastor Newms:

[1:40] My week was good. Yeah just good busy with work new job. I don't know what Tik-Tok groggy is asking me about, I saw or not I know so the joke for those people who don't get why October 3rd is important its National Mean Girls day, um because in the movie Mean Girls she says.

 

Pastor Bill:

[2:13] On October third he asked me.

 

Pastor Newms:

[2:15] And he asked me what day it was and I told him it was October 3rd and so that's kind of like one of those memes that that gets and so I'm sitting here at my computer earlier, and I get a text message from rain and it says it's October third and I'm like. Watching it before before and you know it's a really good movie with what the topic is tonight. It's a bad segue because I should have saved it for the actual segue piece but you know hey I messed that up. And Rayne said in Discord that she has a bunch of gifts because she said she just sent me the text but then I took the GIF of the clip of the movie and send it to her like. Times somewhere around there and just flooded her Discord with the gift know that week was pretty good New World by Amazon games came out on Tuesday, we've had a lot of fun with it this week There's, it's a pretty good game there's definitely some balancing that still has to be done but it's a new game so if you don't expect, server issues and balancing to have to happen.

 

Pastor Bill:

[3:51] And I gotta be honest I'm struggling I'm struggling to keep up with you so that when we stream it's not like, Pastor news running around hitting moms and me sending the background going feet feet feet and right now you're eager level higher than me as it is, and I still feel like food and I'm struggling to keep up man.

 

Pastor Newms:

[4:17] Just imagine how I'm feeling struggling to stay low enough so I don't go in there and. It's been really hard because I don't sleep as much as you do I spend large swaths, the time you're asleep sitting at this exact position and so I've been trying to just do skills and stuff from that time but but you still love her.

 

Pastor Bill:

[4:40] Skill still give you XP.

 

Pastor Newms:

[4:41] I took I took yesterday off to spend time with the family which is very odd for me but I did like the whole day I did.

 

Pastor Bill:

[4:48] Which allowed me to get from Level 22 to just a hair shy of 25.

 

Pastor Newms:

[4:54] Yeah and so it's been good it's been good yeah, I'm enjoying it but I definitely I am not. Going as hard as I would like to and not just because of you but overall just not and that, I'm like seeing people ahead of me and it really frustrates me because I'm just that kind of person because I am what you would call as a try-hard or sweaty boy when it comes to games but it's okay.

 

Pastor Bill:

[5:33] Sweaty boy.

 

Pastor Newms:

[5:35] Yeah that's what they like the people who like try too hard, you know when you're running and when you're active when you're doing crazy things you get sweaty so those people that play like that we call them sweaty boys, and like groggy said there's so much to do every plant you run by every animal you look at every a very much, is about balance and, what you feel like doing if you want to sit there and hit a tree for 24 hours straight you can if you might or might not be you know watch.

 

Pastor Bill:

[6:09] Wow wow you can't quite hit a tree for 24 hours because you'll you will end up with 360 1.5 pounds in your pack and then the game will say can't move, and then you have to dump some stuff on the ground in order to move again at all.

 

Pastor Newms:

[6:24] That's still still just hitting a tree you just threw some stuff on the ground first.

 

Pastor Bill:

[6:27] Because then you have to dump some stuff it's not just hitting a tree.

 

Pastor Newms:

[6:30] Technically you have to turn around and go to the next tree but you know.

 

Pastor Bill:

[6:33] Yeah you have to hit the next train.

 

Pastor Newms:

[6:35] I mean you can like you know other games it's like okay I, there's not a benefit at a certain point unless you're just trying to grind money in here there still is.

 

Pastor Bill:

[6:44] And the fishing is the fishing mechanic is.

 

Pastor Newms:

[6:48] The fishing is gorgeous, I have to say I think it's the best fishing in an MMO I've experienced yet I do there's two aspects I could see improvements on, but overall it's from from the from the start, because other one's got better over time or got worse over time but from the start I have to say it's probably the best one out the gate that I've ever played with so how was your week Pastor Bill.

 

Pastor Bill:

[7:17] My work is good as new world this new game came out that I've been playing new world and it's it's been fun.

 

Pastor Newms:

[7:23] Is that really the most important thing that happened this week. It's October.

 

Pastor Bill:

[7:32] Yeah there was October first that was fun. We celebrated Day of the Dead and we decorated some cookies and I decorated the house and I built a chandelier, out of you know how they have those plastic, pieces that are supposed to be spooky that you put out in your garden you know you just push them down so I bought four of those and I modified them and attach them into a circle, and then I took some wire hangers and undid the hangers and and attach those inside the circle on the top and the bottom with zip ties, through it hold its shape and then I attach some plastic skulls to it and poked holes in the top of plastic goals, battery operated flickering candles that are on timers into them and about those plastic chains and put chains on it and hung it in our kitchen so that's fun, MacGyver begs on Twitch says MacGyver I don't know why I did that with my finger like to touch my ear like I was receiving her.

 

Pastor Newms:

[8:44] I don't know why either but that's okay.

 

Pastor Bill:

[8:46] It was weird so that was fun my mother came and stayed at my grandmother's house across the street for several days this week so we got to see her for lots of chunks of time that was.

 

Pastor Newms:

[9:01] And how is she doing post-surgery still good.

 

Pastor Bill:

[9:03] She's doing good she's up and walking around she walked over to my house today which is it's probably about a quarter of mile one way, and then she went on a walk with the kids, to my grandmother's and around her driveway and back down and up again and around and back down again and you know after having spinal surgery that's that's some good progress.

 

Pastor Newms:

[9:26] Ima Be Honest having never had spinal surgery I probably couldn't walk that far I mean.

 

Pastor Bill:

[9:35] I'm right there with you man I'm right there with you.

 

Pastor Newms:

[9:37] I got a good like quarter mile maybe I went bowling yesterday and barely was able to get out of bed.

 

Pastor Bill:

[9:45] Yeah I saw that on.

 

Pastor Newms:

[9:48] I know.

 

Pastor Bill:

[9:49] On this court and I was like you went what now.

 

Pastor Newms:

[9:53] I actually went went outside and spent a day out of the house like the whole day it was, so odd.

 

Pastor Bill:

[10:05] I used to love bowling I really did but my hips are so out of whack that just one toss and I can't move anymore and the whole next day I have trouble moving and, Biggs wasn't.

 

Pastor Newms:

[10:21] No he wasn't it was a it was adults that live in this house only because we needed some adults that live in this house time away from everyone else because we haven't done that.

 

Pastor Bill:

[10:34] So you and your wife and Heather okay I was like adults that live in that house.

 

Pastor Newms:

[10:41] Will because I can't sell you the holding people I can't say that you know I did win I did win so here's the bad thing so I used to bowl a lot, there was a time where I would bowl consistently over, that was custom ball that was you know I did the whole the whole nine.

 

Pastor Bill:

[11:06] I apologize to Phoenix I didn't call you Phoenix I called you that other name my bad thank you for letting me letting me know that I used the wrong name.

 

Pastor Newms:

[11:18] So we picked no I never owned custom shoes actually Biggs but I had my custom Ball but because I used to, it got left in heat and air and year after year after year I bowled with it and it literally hit the pins and then, split into and finish roll finished rolling because time you know it's what happens to a ball, and I tend to bowl a little hard as anyone could imagine that knows me.

 

Pastor Bill:

[11:51] I don't think you do anything soft man.

 

Pastor Newms:

[11:53] No I really don't I bring its why don't fix things I called Biggs who's literally twice my size whose fingers are two of mine like his wings sighs his you know, four inches taller he's got and like he'll be the, I fixed it and I'm like I broke two of them trying to do what you just did like just because I don't I don't have good but the problem with not having a custom ball was twofold so one, I like to with my wrists and my arthritis in my hands if I go too heavy, the weights I used to use my hand hurts real bad after about, week and I can say it's three frames into the third game but the problem is when you do a lower weight, the balls that aren't custom that are at a bowling alley there just drilled, and they drill them based on okay this size person would use this ball so this is their finger holes. My hands are too big for that so I end up using a ball that either pulls on my thumb joint over and over again. Or a ball that ends up hurting my wrist so we got through the first game and I I beat the girls really really bad like really bad. Demolished and then we go into the second game and I do better than 80 and Phoenix doesn't bulb much and we'll just going to leave it at that and then we go into the third game and.

 

Pastor Bill:

[13:45] Is that the one that is 81.

 

Pastor Newms:

[13:47] Yeah the second game Zaydie won, I mean I won but just a little just just a little and then the third game I, for gutter balls in a row because my my my hand starts twisting you know it's just the whole night and I'm just angry at that point and you know how. Yeah no I don't use the bumper but luckily I will say my total score. Was still greater than Zaydies and higher than.

 

Pastor Bill:

[14:25] After 30 frames

 

Pastor Newms:

[14:26] This one this one was interesting so this one you paid by the game not by the hour it's actually a 24-hour bowling alley for the third shit and they actually say third shift friendly 24-hour bowling at because it's in Smyrna, where the factory that Biggs works at is and so they have special leagues for the Third, the third shifters they have like the whole nine and so you're like get it the whole anyway.

 

Pastor Bill:

[14:56] Yeah the whole line yeah.

 

Pastor Newms:

[14:58] So

 

Pastor Bill:

[14:58] As if it was some other sport.

 

Pastor Newms:

[15:01] Well it didn't start there as well wasn't bowling just like golf that started in, I thought it started in the north parts of great.

 

Pastor Bill:

[15:14] This is neither here nor there.

 

Pastor Newms:

[15:15] It Isn't So I did beat them but by the time I woke up this morning and I got and my arm was just like, and and my knees were like those weren't good shoes like your feet hurt all day congratulations so yeah so I was like I do nothing else, they actually had a sign and it was like bumpers are for kids under age blah and I was like I'll ask for you guys if you want there like naught after reading that sign.

 

Pastor Bill:

[15:52] Another that's a No-No.

 

Pastor Newms:

[15:53] Yeah.

 

Pastor Bill:

[15:54] Alright now that we've done all that it's time for getting to know the pastor's.

 

Pastor Newms:

[16:02] Which is much easier to do because of cards. Not the hour we talked but the one card we answer. Sorry I'm in a mood I'm in a mood today it's one of those things.

 

Pastor Bill:

[16:19] Let's say we've got about three weeks till till that one thing comes in okay when you die what do you want to be remembered for.

 

Pastor Newms:

[16:30] Being good at it. Yeah I want to go out and some crazy way that everyone go everyone forgets exactly what you've done in life it's like did you hear about that guy that died doing that.

 

Pastor Bill:

[16:43] First of wherever you want to be remembered for like.

 

Pastor Newms:

[16:47] How I died.

 

Pastor Bill:

[16:48] The band on the Titanic they kept playing until the water just sucked him or the chef on the Titanic he kept drinking until the moment they.

 

Pastor Newms:

[17:03] Drink anymore so no I hope I would be remembered for that no I know but no like like.

 

Pastor Bill:

[17:05] Well I didn't mean specifically but I meant you know people who've gone you know except except the Shelf didn't die he he lived because of all his drinking.

 

Pastor Newms:

[17:18] Well he wouldn't go through hypothermia it'd be much harder to have hypothermia because of the extra heat so as the water Rose he probably just floated up through the ship and was cut to the top and win crap I tried.

 

Pastor Bill:

[17:28] Well he didn't he he went up to the front of the ship and then when the ship you know started tipping he was up on top, and he was you know just was still drinking and fell off into the water and swam to a Lifeboat and they pulled him up in and, he was one of the survivors.

 

Pastor Newms:

[17:49] That's one of the only times where alcoholism actually saved someone's life because so often that's not the case oh I did this thing that you told me to do I went I did I was at, I was at a place yesterday, and they had hair straighteners they weren't it wasn't specifically a beard straightener but if I straighten my goatee it grows two inches.

 

Pastor Bill:

[18:15] Yeah it does it's not great.

 

Pastor Newms:

[18:16] It was straight I was like but I wanted to buy it because it was on clearance at Dollar General it so it was like I was like, clearance if it blows up in my hand it was on clearance, and so no Zaydie I don't but that's beside the point I'll get to you in a second, and so I am actually going to invest in the in the in the in the beard thing that you have to because it was kind of nice and if I'm going to grow my beard back out I will, I need to, not looking shabby Zaydie on Twitch said that I would have to leave the house more often and go on trips if I wanted to die fantastically but I really don't I can die fantastically Somehow Here.

 

Pastor Bill:

[19:09] I don't know why it reminds me of it reminds me of a Tick-Tock video I saw and there's somebody sent to me and it was this guy and he was I had to have maintenance come into my house, um to fix something in the bathroom and the maintenance guy came in and he went to the bathroom and he worked on it, and he came when he got done he came out and he just left just walked past me he never said anything and then I go back into the bathroom after he's gone and I look down and I see this and he points the camera he's got the toaster sitting on the edge of the bathtub plugged in the bathtub is empty but the toasters there and he was like now there's a legitimate reason why that's there, and I can't hear what he said it was but but he was like but this made this guy just came in saw the toaster plug get on the edge of my bathtub and said nothing, he said nothing to me at all you just left.

 

Pastor Newms:

[19:57] I saw another Tick-Tock very similar thing and it said well tomorrow is going to stink I just found out my toasters waterproof. How was like. Oh that that's not funny is but that ain't like are you okay like you're joking right.

 

Pastor Bill:

[20:23] It's a good joke is a great joke even but I'm on need you to stop.

 

Pastor Newms:

[20:27] Okay so what was your answer what do you want to be remembered for Pastor Bill.

 

Pastor Bill:

[20:45] I think it's much better things to remember.

 

Pastor Newms:

[20:47] Who do do do do do do do do do do do do do do.

 

Pastor Bill:

[20:55] Groggy says he wants to be remembered for being a good person.

 

Pastor Newms:

[21:11] Not so good and I mean I get that I can understand that answer I had someone say wow that's rude Biggs.

 

Pastor Bill:

[21:22] Your dad loves you so much.

 

Pastor Newms:

[21:23] He loves me so much Biggs on Twitch responded when I asked you know wolf defined good he just said not you, holding Love Languages hatred and sarcasm it works.

 

Pastor Bill:

[21:41] Okay so let me let me rephrase I have a messages that I won't remember I have, ideals from scripture that I want remembered faith hope love the Berean lifestyle I have a science fiction things that I'm writing that I'm working on but it's not me that I want to be  remembered, if anything I want the ideals that I preach to live on not my name and I want the stories that I tell to live on,

but not necessarily me not necessarily my name.

 

Pastor Newms:

[22:16] Yeah cuz I'll agree with that names.

 

Pastor Bill:

[22:19] That does mean 100% no good to be me remembered.

 

Pastor Newms:

[22:24] Names and stuff, is rough like I feel bad for some authors that are remembered for the things they did like you take Tolkien and you take CS Lewis and, so much of their work is Remembered in a certain way and then you have these people that that that like everyone knows like, the new movies are based on Lord of the Rings by Tolkien and you're like token had so much good work that never gets touched CS Lewis had some amazing things he wrote that never gets touched.

 

Pastor Bill:

[23:01] Edgar Rice Burroughs he's got the Pellucidar series, best thing I've ever read - best writing I've ever read in my life he's got the Barsoom series not quite as well written as Pellucidar, but really really really good and then he's got Tarzan.

 

Pastor Newms:

[23:20] And that's what he's remembered for.

 

Pastor Bill:

[23:29] Why Tarzan? That's like an insult to this great of great man of literature that Tarzan,

is what he's rumored for and I'm like okay move.

 

Pastor Newms:

[23:45] Yeah it's definitely yeah yeah I would definitely have some words if people were murdered me for the things you don't want to be remembered for.

 

Pastor Bill:

[23:58] All right so we're 626 significantly sing I'm gonna have trouble with in the transcript with that one.

 

Pastor Newms:

[24:06] Yeah I have fun I'm interested to see what you write when you translate that on Tuesday.

 

Pastor Bill:

[24:11] We are significantly trains like that we are significantly warmed up and so I would like you. To give us a soft cat recap of why and how forgiveness plays into Mean Girls. I've never seen the movie so. And I specifically wait until this moment to say that so that everyone watching could see that face. We've been friends for 20 years and I still haven't seen.

 

Pastor Newms:

[25:10] So one of the prefaces of Mean Girls is that girls are mean in high school that's kind of what the movies about and I'd like to point out that it's not until 40 like 48, 43 minutes into the movie that the term mean girl is actually stated so.

 

Pastor Bill:

[25:32] So a lot of prologue huh.

 

Pastor Newms:

[25:33] That's when the movie actually starts, and Zaydie hates that I told her that Kevin Smith said that at one point because it constantly now just makes her go make sure go.

 

Pastor Bill:

[25:44] He's right.

 

Pastor Newms:

[25:46] The movie just started.

 

Pastor Bill:

[25:51] Up to this point was just them and making sure that you understand the universe that you're in and now the story starts then then the last 15 minutes of the movie that's the story.

 

Pastor Newms:

[26:04] So forgiveness forgiveness so the whole bit preface of the movie is I'm not going to go into the whole thing because it's don't condone going and watching it unless you are prepared because it is not a. Necessarily family-friendly depending on your particular religious beliefs.

I watch it with my girls they love it but it's there's some definite there's things that happened in the movie that are specifically written poorly and like specifically, like that child should never be exposed to what she was just exposed to and that's the point it's calling out parents that don't watch their children and different things like that and so. And so at the end of the movie we get to a certain point and. Lindsay Lindsay Lohan is that right. Sorry it's so different because the movie so old when I think about her now you're like that's not the same person but they she does.

 

Pastor Bill:

[27:22] It's kind of it can isn't the same person I mean if we're being honest.

 

Pastor Newms:

[27:24] It really isn't not even a little she does a prologue at the end talking about you know everything has happened through the movie and how huh.

 

Pastor Bill:

[27:36] An Apple log a monologue you said a prologue.

 

Pastor Newms:

[27:40] I'm in a monologue I'm.

 

Pastor Bill:

[27:42] Catch it so she just monologue at the.

 

Pastor Newms:

[27:44] And one of the things she talks about is how girls who are always being mean to each other you have to. Get over that by forgiving each other and moving past it after, asking for forgiveness and asking for you know and moving through to then and then, and then it says you know and the next year when we're all seniors it's like none of it ever happened and there's you know and of course the school's perfect blah blah blah and then you see these three freshmen girls walk by and there dressed exactly how the three mean girls are dressed in the beginning of the first scene of the movie and, and it's like it shows that you know one it shows that cycle of you know yeah you guys figured it out but the next group didn't but it's definitely it was just funny when I was watching it I got to that part and I was like, forgiveness knowing that in 15 minutes we were going to go live to talk about forgiveness it was just one of those funny moments where was like,

but there's a lot of catch phrases that most people don't even know, that's where they come from that come from that movie and it's just a cultural significant movie for Our Generation that you know you're fugly for never watching.

 

Pastor Bill:

[29:11] But you think I'm beautiful.

 

Pastor Newms:

[29:13] I didn't say you're not beautiful I said you're fugly there's a difference.

 

Pastor Bill:

[29:16] So they don't they zadie on Twitch said it right that time says yes but also the first time after that the story of when the movie officially began and there was two minutes left.

 

Pastor Newms:

[29:31] Yeah there was I don't remember what movie it was but I told her the whole thing that Kevin Smith says which is Kevin Smith the director for people who don't know he's decently famous if you have any culture whatsoever but he he says this thing, that well I mean let's be honest he's not mainstream he's cult classics there, the only thing he's ever done this mainstream is like, certain episodes of mainstream television because he's so good other people are like please come write and direct an episode and he's like okay and he did just relaunch some superhero thing that I really want to watch but I don't remember what it was, he's relaunching the whole thing what was it he thought there was something else also but yeah anyway. He says that, a movie has not started until the name of the movie is set, that everything before that is just explaining as Pastor Bill said the universe so shortly after I told Tina that we start watching this movie and it literally gets,

like, two minutes before it's ended and they say it Tina's makes the says the thing gets frustrated unpause has the movie because we've been sitting there for two hours unpause has the movie there's like 30 seconds and then it starts be like to end credits and stuff and she's like. Kevin Smith is stupid so after she slept on the couch I forgave her and we moved on that didn't happen.

 

Pastor Bill:

[31:14] I like the I like the Trope of putting it at the end because it sends a message of either, now you get to write the actual story, using these characters in your brain or you taking the lesson that was learned and applying it to your own life is the story that we were wanting to sell.

 

Pastor Newms:

[31:40] That's interesting way to think about it.

 

Pastor Bill:

[31:43] That's the way I like to think about it all right so what is forgiveness.

 

Pastor Newms:

[31:52] I don't know you tell me.

 

Pastor Bill:

[31:55] I just asked you.

 

Pastor Newms:

[31:56] It's something I'm not good at.

 

Pastor Bill:

[31:58] I thought you have the answers here.

 

Pastor Newms:

[32:00] I don't normally have the answers I have a bunch of things I read and a bunch of things I believe are the correct answers but I do not have the answers. Actually got their conversation with someone this week and we had the whole conversation and then we get to the end and I said the point that the person was trying to make and I said well I think this. And they looked at me and they were like. What what do you mean I said well I agree with your statement I disagree with how you got there and why you got there. And so what I was trying to do was make you think about why you think what you think to get you to the point of. Having the thought process and I was like I don't know I could be completely wrong but I need someone to tell me I'm wrong so that way I know I'm wrong but that's beside the point that's another conversation. For me forgiveness forgiveness is complicated, because see now you got me at 20 minute 20 at 39 minutes in and you're going to make me already say it I like to try to save it towards towards the end as we're wrapping up but, you know English really sucks in that forgiveness means one of these days I'm going to wake up and not speak English, and you know God or someone is going to be laughing going what sucks now just because I've made this comment for so many years something at some point is going to make it right I don't I can't speak English and it's gonna be like, okay well this language sucks more and it's going to be even funnier anyway, you know forgiveness means different things depending on the parties and depending. What's going on so for example if you've wronged someone,

and you ask for forgiveness you're asking them to not hold against you whatever it is you did, and normally you're asking. For the relationship to continue in a state of before you did the thing to wrong the person sometimes, depending on if you actually want that I mean there's a whole cavity that's the thing about the term and, and as humans you hear that all the time well forgive me I'm sorry but blah and my favorite is when people say well forgive me for what I'm about to say, or you know things like pardon me you know things like that and you're like no no don't be mad. But you know that's like that's like pre asking forgiveness I'm about to say something that's going to offend you and I'm asking you not to hold it against me.

 

Pastor Bill:

[35:11] So let's let's let's talk about English for a second we have we have certain words that the and it how you know we have these words but. And we have these words however. But means to negate right so when you say forgive me but, what you're communicating is forgive me but and now I'm going to negate, request you forgive me and tell you that my request was actually worthless because now I'm going to say the important part of the. Forgive me but right or you say oh man you're such a good painter but if you write so now you've negated the first half of the sentence, and it's gone away that is gone it's gone away that's what you're communicating then you've got however. However is not a negation statement however is a the first part is true and I also think there is another part that is true, even though they may seem to have some sort of conflict between, but I hold them to be able to have a way to coexist oh man you're a great painter however, I feel like if there was a little bit more like. So I'm not negating that you're a great painter and I'm also making a statement of my own personal belief so this is this but and however thing so when someone says forgive me but, now they're asking for forgiveness not that you have to ask for forgiveness but anyway anyway. Go on.

 

Pastor Newms:

[37:14] So and then we have what most people believe when, Christian person or organization talks says we're talking about forgiveness most people assume we're going straight to forgiveness of sins or straight, you know things like that and I think it's always interesting because the forgiveness. You know in the Bible it talks about forgiveness between humans, and that we have to continue to forgive the people around us and then talks about forgiveness from God and and they're they're similar in some ways but in other ways they're not, at all and so forgiveness is hard but there's and there's different types of forgiveness there's forgive and forget. And then there's forgiving deal with like you know I forgive you and I'll never think about it again which as humans.

 

Pastor Bill:

[38:15] Is impossible.

 

Pastor Newms:

[38:16] Is impossible because I'm going to remember that you told me my left toe, it's not the same size as my right toe and I'll never forget I'll never truly forget that you said it and I always think about the fact that my toes are wrong and it will always make me slightly bitter towards you because you're the one who pointed it out but, the difference is we should continue to treat people well after they forget after we've given them forgiveness but as you said earlier they shouldn't always have to ask, now you get to talk cuz I'm done in time.

 

Pastor Bill:

[38:52] Now I can just suck so let's look at 2nd Timothy, chapter 2 and turn.

 

Pastor Newms:

[39:01] We just in 2nd Timothy 2 like just the other day.

 

Pastor Bill:

[39:07] First and second Timothy or are really really good books for anyone who wants to find out, a lot about the way they should live and think as a Christian, I don't agree with everything Paul believes in this area for instance his beliefs that a woman, shouldn't speak in church and should never teach I don't agree with Paul's belief on that, I think God can use.

 

Pastor Newms:

[39:43] Well I think that was a cultural.

 

Pastor Bill:

[39:46] And teach in church I agree that it was a cult respite but it's still something that he States as an opinion that people grab ahold of and try to apply multiculturally.

 

Pastor Newms:

[39:57] The reason I say that is I don't disagree with Paul's opinion because if you don't have access to the scriptures and you've never read the scriptures you probably shouldn't be teaching the scriptures which is his point his point is if you haven't studied.

 

Pastor Bill:

[40:12] Point in that situation yes.

 

Pastor Newms:

[40:14] So because of that I don't disagree with Paul I disagree with the improper usage of Paul's teaching which sadly has.

 

Pastor Bill:

[40:23] You're taking my statement of trying to avoid a 10-minute conversation to justify my, you know and making it a 10 minute conversation, I just wanted to to breathe past it so that people aren't coming at me with emails and I don't have to you know what I mean.

 

Pastor Newms:

[40:43] It's just hard.

 

Pastor Bill:

[40:44] And it and it doesn't eat up our time here right now. Second Timothy chapter 2 verse 20 now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels but also those of wood and Clay some for honorable use and some for. Newms Take 2 minutes if it even needs that much and tell me about this rhinoceros that's up on your shelf back. Why is that there.

 

Pastor Newms:

[41:17] Can you ask about something else because the rhinoceros is going to cause an issue with certain listeners because I'm going to say things I shouldn't say about the rhinoceros if I try to talk about.

 

Pastor Bill:

[41:27] Okay pick an item.

 

Pastor Newms:

[41:31] Now so the rhinoceros is important because it is from my trip to South Africa, when I went on missions trip and it's significant because it survived that whole trip, even though somehow its horn got broken at one point accidentally and I struggle, with forgiveness as we've already talked about so I still think about it every time I look at it but that's not why it's up there it's up there because, it reminds me of that trip to Africa it reminds me of people in need reminds me of continuing to preach the gospel it reminds me of different things so for me it's important not because of the fact that it's a rhinoceros but because of what it is.

 

Pastor Bill:

[42:19] All right so overall you have this displayed because of the good and honorable things that it brings to mind yes. But also you when you see it you're reminded of something bad that happened.

 

Pastor Newms:

[42:42] Yes.

 

Pastor Bill:

[42:43] Yes okay so when we think about our own selves we think about our own minds.

 

Pastor Newms:

[42:47] Don't hold it against the person who dropped it I really do.

 

Pastor Bill:

[42:52] When we think about our own cells we think about our own minds we think about our own psyche we go through life and we have certain events that happen to us. And we can think of those events as basically like paintings, right so we take a painting or we take a picture and we hanging on a wall because we want to remember in our home we want to remember that event, we want to remember the day that we went to the zoo with the kids and we took a picture and you know so on and so forth, we don't take pictures of a horrible horrific events that happened, and take them and hang them in our home things that made us feel bad things that make us want to hurt ourselves things that make us want to torture ourselves, but in our psyche inside of our self inside of her own little home here we do that all the time right, we take this horrific thing that happened and we put it up on display and we continue to look at it and torture ourselves and we continue to think about it and torture ourselves and we continue to relive the moment and torture ourselves. Forgiveness isn't so much about the other person,

oh forgive me for it okay you're asking me for forgiveness because you want their not to be consequence, for what you've done I get that I understand that you don't want there to be consequence some people deserve their not to be a future consequence because they actually messed up some people, are just trying to take advantage of you and they are. Asking for forgiveness as part of them taking advantage of you, and those people don't necessarily deserve to be let off with no consequences but. Don't deserve to constantly be tortured by the memory of this event. So forgiveness the Forgiveness words looking at tonight forgiveness were thinking about. 2nd Timothy 2:20 there are many vessels some for honorable and some for dishonorable. Inside of our own psyche when we forgive someone an event we're not saying we're letting them off the hook, we're saying I'm going to let that go I'm no longer going to, continue to have this thing in my psyche and continue to torture myself over what happened here I'm not going to continue to allow it to affect who I am right because here's what happens, as as someone who was raised by a stepfather who was let's say less than admirable, okay growing up right without forgiveness,

every time I would see someone with a nose that reminded me of his, the hurt and the pain would come back and I would a tree and I would let it affect my relationship with that person every time I caught a smell, that reminded me of him all the hurt and the pain would come back and it will affect my relationship with that person, every time somebody moved in a certain way. It would remind me of those interactions with that person and the hurt and the pain would come back, I was torturing myself over Andover and over. Because I refused to forgive.

Did he ever learn that forgiveness. Did he ever even ask for that forgiveness. Has he ever even acknowledged that there was anything that could be forgiven. And that is a Hard Sell but the Forgiveness of that person isn't for that person. Forgiveness of that person was for me.

So that every time something comes up I'm not torturing myself, and this is one of those steps where we take when we talk about love your neighbor as yourself we talking about love you will never love yourself, if you are constantly choosing. Torture yourself over the things that happened to you. Over the things that you didn't do forgiveness, of events with other people, is for you it's for your own health it's for your own mind is for your own love, it's very important for a healthy saggy and a healthy life to forgive, I'm not saying you're letting them off the hook, because let him off the hook memes oh yeah I'm just gonna go back to the way things were and I'm gonna put myself right back in the same situation where they abuse me where are they you know ignored me where they shortchanged me where they treated me like a cog in a machine where the, you know all these different things you've got people that are were cheated on you know in their marriages their spouse cheated on them and they, don't feel like they can let that go because that person wronged me that person did it get that, I'm not saying you have to go back to that relationship I'm not saying you have to stay in that relationship I'm not saying you let that person off the hook I'm saying you let yourself, off the hook and stop torturing yourself over what the other person did. And that's my message of forgiveness tonight. Is forgiveness is for yourself, not exclusively, but that's the message I want to bring.

 

Pastor Newms:

[50:14] And indefinitely especially when we're talking about interpersonal, that is a hundred percent because, you know you hear it said sometimes you need to forgive that person you need to work towards moving past it, not for the other person because a lot of times, like you've mentioned you've already moved on from the physical space so you might never see that person again there's a particular situation in my past that I, as I've stated I think this is the fourth time now struggle with forgiveness of humans and there's particular person that wronged me in a certain way and. Affected my family and everyone around me to the point where it's it's hard some days some days you still want to be like that person, but that's not healthy you know because that person is never thinking about you you're wasting your mental state your mace you're wasting your emotions on it, and you know that's why I think the Bible talks about, forgiveness you know how many times do you forgive someone you know forgive them all the times it's not for the other person it's so it's not eating away at you and consuming everything you're doing because especially when it's trauma, because there's there's little things that people do that, we're not necessarily talking about like someone know why you stepped on my foot you know I made the joke you know you said my big toes too long you know things like that probably aren't going to affect you forever but the things that are, if you don't heal from it you don't try to walk past it not saying that healing is a hundred percent possible because there's with trauma once it's burned in it's something you have to work towards.

 

Pastor Bill:

[52:26] It's like scar tissue it really is it's like scar tissue I mean we're going to score right here that you know. It's the I will always be there it's never ever ever going to just not be something you can remember.

 

Pastor Newms:

[52:47] Like I have a thing on my own.

 

Pastor Bill:

[52:49] To be something that you don't put on a pedestal and continue to run back to.

 

Pastor Newms:

[52:56] I got think of my arm that reminds me to always use chemicals properly, do not try to see how much pain you can take that you're a bigger boy than the person that you work with in the Walmart photo lab, beating the person by holding a can of air upside down and burning your skin and giving yourself second-degree burns does not prove you're a better person. When you have to go into the doctor because you have second-degree burns on here arm doesn't help but it's something, you remember it you'll always remember it you it was a lesson learned, and we have to learn from those situations and move past them you know part of it is you know when you go through trauma it.

Affects how you interact with people and sometimes that wrong that you felt allows you to interact with people better. Sometimes sometimes it's not but sometimes it is because you strive to not do the same things that were done to you, once you've healed from it until you have all you're going to do is hold hold it against that that person or that group of people or you know what.

 

Pastor Bill:

[54:19] And you're going to end up you're going to end up hurting the people around you that love you, because you're torturing yourself and and and you it's okay so I just happen to have this little cup on my desk it had paint in it and more into just brought it in here put it in here but anyway, it's like this right you have a limit to how much your cup can, and if you continue to torture yourself and fill up that cup it's gonna overflow. And the people that are going to get hit by that overflow are those that love you and want to be around you and want to help you and if you're overflowing bile to them because you're constantly torturing yourself, and that's just going to hurt those people those people that you love and that love you so forgiveness.

 

Pastor Newms:

[55:17] And I find it I find it. Upsetting and I have to forgive you for it later for specifically picking something for behind me to make a point of just saying. For all my things I'm like where is he going with it oh this is a valid place to go I guess but.

 

Pastor Bill:

[55:41] Okay fine all right so that's what we have for tonight, forgiveness if you listen to this podcast it does come out every Wednesday night at 7 p.m. Central Standard Time wherever your podcasts, also and however here's how it see how I did that I didn't say but also and however, we do record it live on Sunday evenings at 6:30 p.m. Central Standard Time and we'd like to invite you to come and see it recorded live and join the conversation in the chat, you can join us on Facebook YouTube or twitch you can go to EK K dot house to find out which twitch which Facebook and which YouTube you can participate on, and we would love to have you join us and actually become a part of the conversation we don't want to be just my voice and Pastor Newms is voice echoing back and forth, we would like the people that join us actually, join in the conversation you know not just during the warm-up not just during the getting to know the pastor's but if you've got something to say that can enrich, the conversation then we want you to be here to say it because. Yeah we enrich each other we build each other up and we move forward as Believers together, so we would love to see you or rather see your handle on the screen, when we go live on Sunday nights don't forget to be looking at twitch for when we go live with gaming with the pastors Pastor Newms and I playing some New World the new game that dropped from Amazon.

 

Pastor Newms:

[57:25] You'll definitely learn more about us than when answering the cards.

 

Pastor Bill:

[57:30] Oh man you will learn so much more about us.

 

Pastor Newms:

[57:32] As you can see I do not have forgiveness towards bill for making me do that segment every week I will be better still and it only hurts me because he doesn't care.

 

Pastor Bill:

[57:44] When we are live we also have a Discord server that we have some tunes playing that doesn't go out to the live stream on to Twitch,

we have music in our headsets and you can listen to what we're listening to if you want to join us on that server you can hit up Pastor noobs when we're live on Twitch and he can send you an invite, don't be offended if he doesn't send you an invite we have, let's just say he Definitely wants to get to know people more before he puts everyone in the world on that server because his kids are on that server my kids are on that server we just want to make sure that we're creating a safe space for, everyone on that.

 

Pastor Newms:

[58:32] Actually most people that would join wouldn't be able to actually see the areas of the server the kids are in and they can't see all the channels either I have them locked down by roll but that's.

 

Pastor Bill:

[58:45] You have the role set okay cool.

 

Pastor Newms:

[58:47] I have the children lockdown.

 

Pastor Bill:

[58:48] They're all set oh good good I'm glad.

 

Pastor Newms:

[58:52] They would never know they were there but now they will.

 

Pastor Bill:

[58:55] All right well there you go my bad all right I love you guys have a great week

 

Pastor Newms:

Stay safe out there.

 

Pastor Bill:

and until next time.

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