Pastor Bill:

[0:00] Hello and welcome to season 3 episode 52 of the Berean Manifesto: Faith, Hope, and Love for the Modern Christian. Tonight we are going to be talking about something that may, make some people feel rather passionate about one way or another. We are not here to tell you how to think, or what to believe, but your present the way we see things and what evidence we can provide that led us to believe certain things that way. If you then want to walk away from this conversation and go well the evidence they provided I don't agree with, that, that's good evidence and I'm going to continue believing the way I believe. That's great. At the end of the day we're both going to walk away agreeing that Jesus was born as a man died for you know... what's the right words... the propitiation of our sins, not our actions but sin nature, so that we can walk in a relationship with God so that we have the hope of looking forward to an eternity with Him. You're going to walk away sharing that belief, I know, I'm not doing a soft open I mean I'm doing a soft open I'm not doing a hard open. Um no, I'm talking to Biggs on Twitch, he says, "well how was your week?" as if he's like don't forget guys everything goes bad if you don't do a warm up first. Um yeah, so we will be looking at some scriptures tonight and we will be talking a bit about this Universal Bible Tome that Newms and I both have because it's got some great things that we need to talk about and so that's that's where we are. Tonight's episode is called, "Not Inerrant but Infallible" Peekaboo my little Groggy is joining us on Twitch welcome Groggy, glad you're here tonight.

 

Pastor Newms:

[2:23] Oooo, one of these days he's gonna get you for saying that.

 

Pastor Bill:

[2:24] My little Groggy, my little Groggy. Oooh he's several states away what's he going to do? Come to Texas and finally meet me face-to-face? Ooh, I'm scared. We'll go have some barbecue or something together, that'd be awesome. All right, so how was your week pastor Newms?

 

Pastor Newms:

[2:59] We started a new war in Star Trek last night. That's really been it I've not done a ton this week, was pretty much mainly focused on work celebrated the fifth of November yesterday. So other than that yeah it was pretty good. I got a new mask I got a nice new mask I like my new.

 

Pastor Bill:

[3:26] Yeah you did, your Guy Fawkes mask.

 

Pastor Newms:

[3:29] Yes yes to celebrate the.

 

Pastor Bill:

[3:34] And for those of you listening to podcast not watching live he picked up an all black mask with golden highlights to make it look like Guy Fawkes, also reminiscent of the V movie - V for Vendetta. Yeah that he watches on November 5th every year because that's how his brain works. There are certain movies that you have to watch on certain days, Mean Girls on October third and V is for Vendetta on November 5th.

Biggs on Twitch says Groggy's going to drive his Corvette and have a road trip down to Texas, Biggs is volunteering Groggy for a road trip to Texas in his Corvette that's lovely I look forward to seeing. Alright, so?

 

Pastor Newms:

[4:26] How was your week Pastor Bill.

 

Pastor Bill:

[4:27] How was my week? Um, well my week was was pretty good I mean. See the problem with asking about the whole week is I don't really remember whole weeks I remember like I can tell you what I did today and probably what I did yesterday. But I can also tell you useless information like. I don't know, useless information about things in history that nobody cares about but stuff about me and my week I just I just draw a blank you know, yeah so I went and had barbecue yesterday for lunch at this alien establishment built around the Aurora alien just down the road and it was great barbecue. First time I've ever been able to say that because you know everything is subjective and then in my subjective opinion it's the first great barbecue that I've had so. So yeah, so that's that and I did some work around the house this week just fixed some stuff that need to be fixed and.

 

Pastor Newms:

[5:41] You messed with some computer rigging of things was that this week or was that last week graphic stuff.

 

Pastor Bill:

[5:47] I can't remember.

 

Pastor Newms:

[5:50] I don't remember.

 

Pastor Bill:

[5:51] I don't remember what I've done this week but I guess that's a good sign because I mean is it wasn't a bad week.

 

Pastor Newms:

[5:57] Right exactly yeah.

 

Pastor Bill:

[5:59] So nothing bad happened, so I'm thankful for that they can see you know that's a good place to start. But like you said we, we in Star Trek Fleet command we had a down week no story arc which was just kind of frustrating but we did have, after a few days of almost literally nothing in the game, they finally dropped a Crucible Of War event which is a three-day just grind of hostiles to which Newms looked at it and went this is just my daily what I do in the game what are you guys complaining about, and I'm like no no this is considered Star Trek grind and he's like this is just what I do daily I don't understand what's wrong with you guys. Yeah, but for me, I was I was tired of seeing the color red personally but I don't play games the same way that Newms does which has been a point of conversation over the past four days that I'm glad we can move on to different conversations now. Things about how we don't like the people we're allied with in a current War, but we're going to be good soldiers and fight the good fight anyway and and hope for the war to end soon so we can go back to not liking the people that were allied with. So that's that that was my week and so now I guess we'll do Getting to Know the Pastors and since this is an even-numbered episode season 3 episode 52 that means that Newms will pull a card from his box and we will answer.

 

Pastor Newms:

[7:39] Alright as not how we're going to be able to read the question all right.

 

Pastor Bill:

[7:46] Yeah you can't read the back of the car.

 

Pastor Newms:

"If you could have one book instantly memorized cover to cover, which book would you choose?"

 

Pastor Bill:

[8:03] Um that would have to be Grey's Anatomy.

 

Pastor Newms:

[8:10] The book, there's a book?

 

Pastor Bill:

[8:14] Yeah it's the book that's got the man sprawled out on the front of it and his arms are in different positions it's a medical textbook.

 

Pastor Newms:

[8:23] Oh okay, why?

 

Pastor Bill:

[8:27] Oh you you thought I meant like a novelized version of the show Grey's Anatomy I'm talking about the medical textbook Grey's Anatomy.

 

Pastor Newms:

[8:37] But why.

 

Pastor Bill:

[8:39] Because I want to know everything and that's a really good place to start.

 

Pastor Newms:

[8:54] This is one of those I can't answer there's too many valid answers that that I can't formulate a decent answer to it.

 

Pastor Bill:

[9:10] Now if you thought either one of us were going to say the Bible then welcome to the Berean Manifesto, It's good to have you here. We don't give flaky answers, we avoid the obvious flaky answers and go for deep meaning stuff obviously every Christian would want to have the Bible memorized.

 

Pastor Newms:

[9:32] But that's not a book it's a collection of books.

 

Pastor Bill:

[9:34] That's a collection of books but it's bound as a and sold as a single unit.

 

Pastor Newms:

[9:40] No but that was my thought was I can't pick a single book because it is in and of itself not a single book.

 

Pastor Bill:

[9:48] It's an anthology but it is it's a work of it's an anthology work you know.

 

Pastor Newms:

[9:57] Yeah.

 

Pastor Bill:

[9:59] Bound as a single book anyway.

 

Pastor Newms:

[10:04] But then I was so many other books on my on my you know this just in I don't know man.

 

Pastor Bill:

[10:11] Just the one you'd want to memorize I mean just like.

 

Pastor Newms:

[10:13] See I do.

 

Pastor Bill:

[10:14] And then you could be sitting back one day on a on a stranded Island on a on the beach and some strain on the middle of the ocean and be like all right I'm going to walk my brain through. Yeah ABatBrain on Twitch says coding for dummies.

 

Pastor Newms:

[10:36] The problem with memorizing a coding book would be the fact that one the language is changed constantly so memorizing one feature wouldn't the concept stay the same but that's not the hard part of coding the concepts are the easy part the hard part of coding is the syntax.

 

Pastor Bill:

[10:57] Biggs is throwing shade I'm surprised it took them this long to start throwing shade, we're 16 minutes and he's throwing shade at me for drinking apple juice and then sipping my dr. pepper.

 

Pastor Newms:

[11:10] You are nasty but we all know that already so I don't know why anyone.

 

Pastor Bill:

[11:14] It's not like I'm pouring both of them in my mouth at the same time.

 

Pastor Newms:

[11:17] You're nasty, you're always nasty, it's fine we love you for it. But you nasty.

 

Pastor Bill:

[11:27] See now Zaydees got to go straight for the cheat they didn't which says all Edgar Allan Poe's work and the original Beowulf I don't know that you can find that all printed in one book.

 

Pastor Newms:

[11:37] Olive olive.

 

Pastor Bill:

[11:39] To memorize.

 

Pastor Newms:

[11:40] All of Poe actually we own all in one book if you're classifying an anthology as one book.

 

Pastor Bill:

[11:49] Because you said and Beowulf.

 

Pastor Newms:

[11:50] Beowulf yeah I know that's where that's where your. Oh dummy must be blanked out it's coming across on this platform it might not on Twitch because.

 

Pastor Bill:

[12:10] So true.

 

Pastor Newms:

[12:12] You I think Biggs you actually have your filter set on. Cuz it's coming across twitch correctly so I think it's because you have your profanity filter on and I guess dummy is one of the no no words on. On Twitch yet comes across perfectly fine so yeah that's that's that's on your side Biggs I'll have to show you how to turn that off at some point.

 

Pastor Bill:

[12:46] HPuffPhoenix says all of Grimm's Fairy Tales. Well if you can't answer do we need to pull another card because nobody got to know you well.

 

Pastor Newms:

[13:07] "Through the use of a time machine you are traveling back to the year 1850."

 

Pastor Bill:

[13:12] No, I'm not - that ain't happening.

 

Pastor Newms:

[13:15] You may take with you one and only one product or invention from the modern error what would you take with you to impress and all our forebears? None of it because they would burn you at the stake.

 

Pastor Bill:

[13:27] The Time Machine they would be impressed and then I would come home I aint staying in and 1850.

 

Pastor Newms:

[13:34] But even that they would burn you at the stake they would destroy you they would call you now no no man. I'll go forward, hopefully it's better that direction I need some robotic I need some robotic limbs I need a brain to computer interface.

 

Pastor Bill:

[13:54] It just gets worse than both directions from here trust me I can guarantee it he just gets worse in both directions. I trust Phoenix says no she's just knowing that to a bat brain is quoting Monty Python she's a witch will she float.

 

Pastor Newms:

[14:25] Big big guns of the only thing I.

 

Pastor Bill:

[14:29] Take big gun you just wipe them out and be like that fixes the problem.

 

Pastor Newms:

[14:33] Like it's really like dot dot dot dot dot dot dot as they're getting you know and just deal with it move on because it's not.

 

Pastor Bill:

[14:43] You wipe yourself out no no these are smart bullets they won't hit anything that's close to my own DNA so I'm not wiping out any of my ancestors.

 

Pastor Newms:

[14:53] Well you couldn't the rule the true laws of time wouldn't allow that sorry.

 

Pastor Bill:

[14:58] Well they would. Yes it's like a stream you can throw a rock in the Stream and divert the stream but it's just going to reconnect and and and do the same eventuality anyway.

 

Pastor Newms:

[15:14] Because as soon as soon as you killed someone who, destroyed you you've now destroyed the ability to go back and kill any of them it doesn't I don't believe in the fragmentation of time I believe in the straight one, line anyhoo that is not what we're talking about tonight we are.

 

Pastor Bill:

[15:37] I believe in I believe in similar eventual outcomes. In regards to changing time you believe in self-fulfilling, if you go back in time and change something it was because you already did that before, yeah that's what you believe and that's the perfect leave at that's just as valid as believing that time is ruled by three magical Wizards that sit outside of time and are part reptilian and. Because you're talking time travel that's 100%.

 

Pastor Newms:

[16:17] Theoretical today.

 

Pastor Bill:

[16:24] You'd think if time travel was possible we'd know by now well no you wouldn't not if you can't time travel back further than the machine you created then you wouldn't know it or anyway.

 

Pastor Newms:

[16:39] There's a lot of time paradoxes that can happen in time paradoxes are no fun.

 

Pastor Bill:

[16:44] See this is how you get to know the pastor's you're learn more about us right now than you probably bargained for what we believe about time travel and get it. Okay oh he's puffing smoke a wrote a book speaking of streams did you know that if a beaver's dam gets messed up they don't have the mental capacity to process it was destroyed and be upset, they simply just start over. I mean I think it's less of that and more of the they're not sure how to pump all the water back out after they patch the hole it's just flooded there's no choice.

 

Pastor Newms:

[17:36] You got to start over.

 

Pastor Bill:

[17:37] They don't have hydraulic pumps or anything.

 

Pastor Newms:

[17:40] Got to start over all right.

 

Pastor Bill:

[17:57] You and I were both raised I'm gonna go out on a limb and say. To believe that the Bible from cover to cover is the inerrant word of God spoken about in John 1:1. The word was with God the Word was God.

 

Pastor Newms:

[18:22] No I was not taught that part I was taught that that word, became flesh so that that word was the motive that's what I was taught but I was taught that the word of God is inspired inherent and infallible yes.

 

Pastor Bill:

[18:42] Inspired inerrant and infallible. And I was raised believing that it was inerrant, I can't remember too much emphasis being put on the inspired part I was kind of downplayed I think and the infallible definitely, and then I was taught to believe that, when it's Edward in John 1:1 it was specifically talking about this the 66 books and that these 66 books, became a living flesh being who was the person Jesus. And that's what I taught I was taught that this was. Everything Jesus was made up of its whole mental capacity as whole everything was this and a lot of Evangelical churches, that I know of have taught that are still teaching that, that this is tantamount to equal with Jesus and equal with God and therefore is Holy in and of itself. You can't write in it you can't question it you can't study it you can't comparatively, analyze it you have to be respectful of it it's Untouchable it's basically all the definitions you give to an idol. That's what that is and.

 

Pastor Newms:

[20:28] Yeah see and I wasn't taught anywhere close to that in most I can't say like when I was like our little little kid because some of those churches were a little fun but. Even you know schools and stuff that I went to didn't go that far. Not saying I agree with everything they did teach about the Bible but. I didn't go that far that far. That actually cuz we haven't had that part of the conversation before and that explains some other feelings that you have. And because if I was taught that I would definitely have some more issues around it in how you speak sometimes but continue.

 

Pastor Bill:

[21:23] See your learning stuff two decades in and you're still learning stuff about.

 

Pastor Newms:

[21:28] Because you don't love me enough to tell me these things ahead of time.

 

Pastor Bill:

[21:30] Little just come out like they they wait until the right time then they pop out and I'm like bleep yeah here you go below information right, so where you stand today in all of your study and all of your prayer and all of your belief and all of your everything do you still stand 100% on this inspired inerrant and infallible. Position. Let me just stop you right there if your beliefs weren't messy then you wouldn't be giving this topic the respect it deserves.

 

Pastor Newms:

[22:18] Well yeah so. I believe that scripture is inspired the problem is the definition of scripture, the problem is the definition of all and the problem is and then that then takes the next steps and continues through the inerrancy and the infallibility now I believe. That God in the Holy Spirit. Kept the ideals and the overarching importance, of the Bible too its form and protected against. Complete and total an ally Annihilation I don't necessarily agree that, there is a specific version a specific and that's where you start getting into the issues of inherent C and infallibility is because, translations, translate certain aspects completely different and can mean completely different things and how they translate it and that is where you start to get into the messy part of this conversation in my opinion.

 

Pastor Bill:

[23:45] Okay so let me let me boil that down to a much simpler statement okay you believe that all scripture is god-breathed and therefore inerrant. Scripture we haven't defined what scripture is in that statement. But that you believe what second Timothy 3:16 Says all scripture is god-breathed and then we take that step to say well it is therefore then inerrant you also believe that. The Bible is this collection of 66 books is infallible. It's not necessarily inherent from cover to cover but infallible.

 

Pastor Newms:

[24:33] Yes I do not believe the Bible goes against God in any way and I do not believe I don't believe there's errors written.

 

Pastor Bill:

[24:45] No well you you've left room for.

 

Pastor Newms:

[24:50] Well now you're cutting out and I can't hear you so.

 

Pastor Bill:

[24:52] Sorry you've left room for historical inaccuracies. To contradict yourself but in infallibility you've said that even if those details are reported different that the message it teaches has been. Simply put the inerrancy of the Bible means that someone believes that and then we're not talking about the inerrancy of the word scripture, because we'll talk about the definition of the word scripture here a little bit we're talking about specifically the 66 books. The Theology of the inerrancy of the Bible those 66 books, it means that you believe that every sentence within its text is reliably historically and literally the accurate and true words of God. That means you hang your hat on every statement as being 100% this happened, this is true the details are perfectly accurate and in no way biased or influence by culture, that's what the Theology of inerrancy of the Bible teaches and a lot of people when they say I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible they don't realize. What they're claiming about the Theology of, the inerrancy of the Bible right and so whenever we have this conversation with people about will do you believe in the inerrancy of the Bible a most people don't understand what that theology actually teaches, and if they would take time to actually go through line by line what that theology teaches it's likely they would partially agree with that but not fully agree with that, you're saying you can't hear me right now which is fine.

 

Pastor Newms:

[27:07] You're breaking up real bad.

 

Pastor Bill:

[27:08] They would say they partially agree with the Theology of inerrancy but not fully agree when they go through line by line what that theology teaches, the infallibility of the Bible as a theology, teaches that the text within the Bible is reliably capable, of communicating the intended message that God and the author that God inspired wanted communicated. So God inspired the author to write the author wrote down and the actual message the intended information, was communicated and that even if there are contradictions and slight details I'm breaking up again. Why are we having such a hard time, even though it may be slight problems in slight details as in Matthew saying one thing happened and Mark saying it happened differently because two people have two different perspectives, that's okay because two people can tell the same story and the story still be true even though two people look at it differently. That's infallibility not inerrancy okay so let's talk about what the definition of scripture, actually is okay the Greek word means holy writ. Or it can be used for anything that's written it's graph a graph graph a,

scripture make sure I'm using the right word yeah graphe, it's graphe a any document that's written down by hand is can you can use the word graphic for, it's the word scripture and so when they use the word scripture in the Bible though as as writers of, documents that they intend to,

inspire people to live a certain way or correct certain things about Doctrine so basically we're talking about every book of the New Testament,

when they're intending to teach and they use the word scripture they don't mean any written document they literally mean a holy writing okay,

so when we go and we look at, what the defining Mark is for understanding what a scripture is and when they were. Struggling for hundreds of years starting in I want to say. What year was that by 367 ad they had it, pretty well figured out but the struggle started in I want to say it was 150 ad. They were struggling with what New Testament books to endorse as quote-unquote scripture and they didn't have they hadn't land it on, the books that we have right now there were several books that get left out of the original, thing that people were advising people to read as a new testament and then there's this, modern overwhelming teaching, that it was just understood that everything we believed to be the Old Testament was always, considered scripture was always used for teaching was always used for correcting was always scripture right that the Old Testament was always scripture except, when you go back and you look at the things that, Paul quoted the things that Peter quoted the things that Jesus himself quotes, um now I know for sure Jesus but I'm stretching for Paul and Peter you're not going to find them quoting. From Old Testament books that aren't part of the law collection and the prophets collection, which means Joshua Judges Ruth first and second Samuel first and second Kings first and second chronicles Ezra Nehemiah Esther job Psalms Proverbs Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon, none of these books when Jesus walked the Earth were actually considered scripture, and even Jesus himself I know for sure because I went and did the researcher there today he never quotes from any of those books. He references Genesis Exodus Leviticus Numbers Deuteronomy Isaiah Jeremiah Lamentations Ezekiel Daniel Hosea Joel Amos Obadiah Jonah Micah Nahum habakkuk Zephaniah haggai Zechariah Malachi and Psalms which are the books of the law, and all of the minor and major prophets as well as Psalms these are the only books that Jesus ever referenced. All the gospels where we have everything that he ever said. As recorded I mean obviously he said of the things you know cause you can't say pass me the salt, without saying pass me the salt and obviously they didn't write down when he was out of meal and was like they're gonna get some of that salt because you know surely he did, ask for things surely he used regular words surely they had regular conversations sure they at some point he was like man, I gotta go take a dump so I'll be back in a few. I mean obviously you didn't use those words but the equivalent of hey man I got to go take care of this I'll be back and they didn't write that down in the Bible.

Only references these specific books and it's the same books that you find, being referenced by the rest of the New Testament and you got all these books that weren't referenced, because they weren't really considered scripture they were considered poetry they were considered history,

they were considered other things they weren't considered to be scripture but then today we quote from things like, Joshua and judges and Esther and job and Proverbs and we go well the scripture says we find no evidence anywhere in the Bible. That leads us to believe any of those books were considered scripture until-- a hundred and fifty a d-- We don't even have a historical reference to those being scripture until a hundred and fifty a d-- And at some point someone decided Well all this Jewish collection is all scripture now when it wasn't before now I'm not opposed, to having Revelations and gain New Revelations and God doing a new thing that's how Revelations work you know I'm not one of those people that and we talked about this a couple weeks ago, when someone says well they didn't start teaching that until so and so as their main point that's a red flag, that's that shouldn't be your main point right because God can can make New Revelations on the same scripture so I'm not opposed to that but when we are defining what is scripture. We can't point to a collection of books that didn't even start to be collected as that collection. Until over a hundred years after the death of Christ. We can't just blanket say all of this description. That's not how that works even Paul himself in some of his writings he'll say. Now this is what I believe I don't want you to take it as a command from the Lord this is my opinion blah. Now obviously that's not scripture that's Paul even categorically saying this is not scripture this is my personal opinion right. And so. We have to understand that in second Timothy 3:16 when it says all scripture is dot-dot-dot gonna go god-breathed. Paul is not talking about a collection of 66 books that some is going to start putting together. 90 - 60 years after he writes that that's not what he's referencing. We know that's always referencing because we know Paul's not a prophet, never claimed to be a prophet never met any prophecies and that would most definitely be a prophecy, to say you know we're gonna put together a thing and we're gonna call it the Bible and it's gonna be scripture and then you've got Jude. Referencing a do what's called a deuterocanonical, deuterocanonical deuterocanonical Book of Enoch okay so there's apocryphal books meaning their books that were believed to have been written after Malachi, but before Matthew, better than included in most Jewish studies modern Jewish studies and in most Catholic Bibles those are the apocryphal books then you got to deuterocanonical canonical canonical books. That are books that Christians around the world have adopted as Canon. But the Catholic church does not endorse and the Jewish belief is that yeah it would be good for you to read it but it's not part of your required studies, like The Book of Enoch okay scripture can exist in those books. And there was something I wanted to talk about where did you go why is that zooming out.

 

Pastor Newms:

[38:28] Hey Pastor Bill you have a hole in your shirt.

 

Pastor Bill:

[38:34] Stop that. I know, the cat did it. Makes me angry.

 

Pastor Newms:

[38:43] I was like at the at the moment it's right next to the p in your name it's just right there just.

 

Pastor Bill:

[38:51] Why is my computer trying to make me zoom in or zoom out right now that doesn't make any sense oh maybe because my arm is on the keyboard I'm reaching over my keyboard. Okay so by 353. What year was that 364 all.

 

Pastor Newms:

[39:18] I'm not good with the years.

 

Pastor Bill:

[39:23] 367 by 367 ad there were was a collection of books that they believed were authentic, New Testament scripture, okay so we're talking 267 years after the time of Christ a bunch of churches and their leadership finally decided that of the Ada, eight zero gospel accounts that had been found, and the numerous letters claimed to have been written by Paul or Peter or James or Jude or, judah's Bartholomew I mean the list goes on and on and on all these letters that they had that didn't make it. They came up with a system for deciding what should be a new testament book what shouldn't be New Testament book and they were actually using these words by them Old Testament and New Testament,

number one was Apostolic did it come from an apostle did one of the Apostles of Christ pin this work, that was number one if it if they did then it automatically made the first cut they automatically went okay this goes in the in the good pile, surprisingly enough only Matthew Mark Luke and John, of 80 gospels those are the only four that met the first run even though mark, I didn't actually meet Jesus, it's believed that Mark was only writing down Peters words because Peter was old and was having vision problems and couldn't couldn't right you know he's got that old arthritic thing going on and so Mark was writing down Peters words, number two authentic does it have the ring of Truth did it sound when read out loud. To those people like it was something that was worthy of being included in a holy document, or did it sound like it was written by Joe Schmo down the road who is just a normal guy was it eloquent or was it simpleton. Number three ancient has it been used from the earliest of times do the ideas taught in this writing. Line up with and builds upon the ideas that the church in general, has taught over the years for instance. By this time he had agree all agreed on what the Trinity was on the belief of the trinity, and if any phrase in any of these books these writings that were being considered made it sound like the author, did wasn't endorsing the trinity then it got kicked out accepted. Were most of the known churches using this writing. And at this time only 23 of the now 27 books that we have were actually in wide use, 23 of them and then the others were added because they met a certain amount of these other criteria. Number 5 accurate, does it conform to the theological teachings of the church. In the year 360 ad. If it didn't agree with the teachings of the church and 360 ad for whatever reason it was disqualified. And that's how they came to agree loosely. What the 27 books of the New Testament would be now we know that Paul wrote a lot of letters and we know that you know they're out there, and there's a lot of arguments online that point to a lot of scriptures. And a lot of non scriptures in my opinion that say things like the words that were delivering to you are scripture. Except when you go back and read them it says things like the words that we did deliver to you in person. Our God breathed inspired of God and now we're writing you a follow-up letter,

because that it ended up you need encouragement you'd fallen off the trail you've blah blah blah so you don't actually have the original teachings, that Paul and Peter and all these guys were going around teaching because they weren't writing those down they were delivering them orally. We only have their follow-up letters highlighting the areas where their people were struggling with or needed encouragement in only the hard things we don't have any of the easy stuff, that they actually taught face-to-face which is very frustrating to me all right. Um because it would be nice to have all that other stuff. Are you with me so far Pastor Newms everything you want to add or contract or whatever.

 

Pastor Newms:

[45:29] Well so we are 51 minutes and a now I'll say it. English is a terrible language.

 

Pastor Bill:

[45:40] English is so hard so hard.

 

Pastor Newms:

[45:43] And so there's a lot that. You know people teach in Herrin see teacher people teach infallibility and they don't agree on what those words even mean, I was reading one article today that taught the up.

 

Pastor Bill:

[46:02] Ah Zaidee.

 

Pastor Newms:

[46:06] Of the opposite of what we're talking about right now which is what most people believe inherently and infallible seemed means they were teaching the exact opposite that. The infallibility means it's never ever ever inaccurate and its inherent meaning it it can't be proven wrong and it was like wait that.

 

Pastor Bill:

[46:32] That's backwards of what the rest of the world believes those words mean come on.

 

Pastor Newms:

[46:37] It's so it I mean it's a problem.

 

Pastor Bill:

[46:40] Yeah that's the problem.

 

Pastor Newms:

[46:41] And you know I think. Over time we have stretched, what our beliefs are from individuals and groups of individuals who had goals in mind, and sadly I think that has tainted. Some of the translations and some of the beliefs that the modern church has because of that. You know it's one of them things.

 

Pastor Bill:

[47:30] It's one of them things it really is okay so if you don't have anything else you want to talk about about the definition of scripture the word scripture or what is you know.

 

Pastor Newms:

[47:43] So you know for me I believe. The 66 books that we have are all important I think they are all. They all at some point meet the definition of scripture that's given in. Timothy but I don't necessarily believe every aspect in them. Does because of situations like where Paul says this is my opinion where Paul says bring me my coat you know there's nothing we can get doctrinally, that brick that builds up the church or that is used for Doctrine and bring me my coat, the rest of the writings around that are really good and I believe that. You know God did Keep. You know preserved the knowledge that we need in those books. But. You know there is that aspect of you can't trust a single translation several of the translations are wrong in my opinion in different places, because of how they translate the Greek or the Hebrew or. Things like that whereas some are really good. Which is why I study with it at least 3 anytime I study because. Different people translated each time.

But that's that's my thing and then you have the Council of nicaea later the other councils that came after the times you're talking about.

 

Pastor Bill:

[49:50] For total councils.

 

Pastor Newms:

[49:54] And well there were four that talked about scripture correct.

 

Pastor Bill:

[49:59] Right for that dealt with what are we where are we calling cannon not exclusively dealt with what are we calling Cannon but dealt with what are we calling.

 

Pastor Newms:

[50:08] But there were there were other councils that, determined things that determined what they would like like what you were mentioning of hey it has to be one of the beliefs that the church holds those other. Councils are where those were set. And so it is interesting to look at some of those historically and how that shaped modern Christianity. And of course my favorite story ever comes from one of them so but anyway.

We're not going to we're not going to tell it today we're not going to tell us today on purpose so that way people are like which news is favorite story and then they'll have to hear it at some point.

 

Pastor Bill:

[51:01] The man.

 

Pastor Newms:

[51:04] Because we'll get to it we're getting to the season where it's going to be used well we can't get through November and December without it coming up but stay with us you'll get it. What else did you want to say Pastor Bill while you're looking through your nose.

 

Pastor Bill:

[51:22] So I actually was looking at my notes I was reading the letter of. The thinness and effing Asia's the first person in 83 67 this was his Easter letter, to Believers that was revealed at the Pascal Festival where we get the first complete list of the 66 books that, we hold to be Cannon because I like. I like his his sixth paragraph in this letter he's talking about you know here's here's the Old Testament books here's the New Testament books, and then he sums up what I think is a very very very important point, that the church forgot over the years that allowed this, to leave the status of what it is and become what I growing up was taught that it was okay, and and I read what he said here he says after giving the list he does one paragraph for Old Testament one paragraph for New Testament he says, these are Fountains of Salvation that they who thirst may be satisfied with the living words they contain in these alone is proclaimed the doctrine of godliness, let no man add to these,

neither let him take out from these for concerning these Lord put to shame the Sadducees and said he do are not knowing the scriptures and he reprove the Jews saying, search the scriptures for these are they that testify of me so let me. Kind of modernize that some he said these 66 books are what you need to know. To understand your salvation, and all the details for salvation that you need to know are within these books and the other books that, people have gone to they don't have the doctrines in them that you need for salvation they're not wrong, they're not invalid. But this is your basis of understanding salvation the doctrine of understanding salvation exists Within These pages. That was his point study these these 66 books to understand salvation. In nowhere in there did he say. This alone is the exhaustive word of God and nowhere in there did he say that every jot and Tittle of these 66 books, is the inspired word of God he said the doctrine of salvation that you need. Is Within These pages and that's true this is probably, the most important collection of writings ever. But when I go to the Old Testament and I see instructions to the Israelites about the right way and the wrong way to sell your daughter into slavery, and I see instructions to the priest about how to decide if a woman has been unfaithful to her husband. And cause a miscarriage and shrivel up their womb. These are not details that the book is intended for. These are details of what God dealt with those people according to their culture at that time that is part of an overall story to understand why. Why Jesus why Jesus says a man human why Jesus sacrifice what does that mean to me. I don't look at the Old Testament and go, these are instructions on how I'm supposed to live my life I need to go get some dust and mix it in with some water and mix it in with this plant that by the way would probably just make a gross kind of tea and not cause any kind of miscarriage. And it's probably just. A way to tell the man to grow up and love his wife so that she's not feeling like she needs to go out and look for justification in the arms of another man.

Because I can almost guarantee you one hundred percent of the time when that happened that, the woman was found innocent because even the tone of the text is satirical in nature like, getting off on a tangent I've seen so many videos using that as God endorses abortion right here in this shit I'm like that's not. Text means at all breathe okay yeah I like bit so often, you know in my later teenage years and grown up you'd hear like Bible stands for basic instructions before leaving Earth, and it's interesting that that yeah but it's so interesting in that and that what is it called anagram, anyway it's so interesting that that lines up so well when it literally has nothing to do with why it's called Bible but it's so accurate,

yeah the Bible is the basic instruction and I do mean basic as in, you know I'm over it that's so Elementary I mean Ian basic as in you build a foundation for a building, and you build on top of that Foundation that's the Bible this is the foundation of our Christian beliefs and then we build on top of it, and too often we've got so many Christians standing outside of the building worshipping the foundation. Instead of building on top of the foundation. But that's my personal experience okay so this Universal Bible don't let the name, throw you because it first it through me until I actually looked at what was inside of it before I bought it as far as universal what they mean is it's got what every. Christian sect will say sect considers to be Canaan scripture so what the Samaritan believers, hold as Canon Bible what the Hebrew Believers hold his Cannon Bible what the Orthodox Believers holders can in Bible what the Catholics hold his Cannon Bible but the Syriac Believers holds Canada Bible but the Ethiopian, Believers hold as Cannon Bible and then what the pro majority of, North American Believers are the Protestants what the Parsons hold as the Canon Bible okay. And so you've got all the the books that you would expect to have you know all the 39 Old Testament books you've got all the 27 New Testament books, then you've got other things that you wouldn't expect that like I said in the words of this this guy, Athanasius they're good they're not the basis of the doctrine of salvation, but they're good for enriching your Christian faith and your walk you've got the epistle to the Ladeoetians written by Paul, you've got a book called the acts of Paul and Thecla you've got a third Corinthians letter, you know First Corinthians second with is now a third Corinthians letter that Paul had written. And then you've got the apart for apocryphal and deuterocanonical books first as draws second as dress 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th Maccabees the Epistle of Jeremiah the prayer of Azariah the book of Baruch, the prayer of Manasseh Bell and the Dragon, interesting story wisdom of sirach wisdom of Solomon not to be confused with the Song of Solomon because it's not, the parts of Esther that were removed they're here, um Tobit Judith Susanna Enoch,

all three books merged into one text jubilees first Clement the Ascension of Isaiah Shepherd of hermas the Didact I don't know he said that detach, The Apocalypse of Baruch did counting of Josephus of the 6th Jewish War, and the fourth Bucca book of Barack. These are all the books that are considered Canon by any believers, and then you've also got Psalms chapter 151 which isn't in, the partisan Canon Bible which is interesting. And yeah so if you wanted to get a look into all that all the extra books and see you know. What is considered Canon by other believers who have gone yeah this is this is great stuff to have, um to know to enrich your faith to grow shoot us a message and I can send you the link to where you can go get this it won't be one of those I'll get a kickback when you buy it because, we're not going to do that that's that's pointless, if you want this resource then I'm more than happy to send you the link and I'm not going to get anything out of it but it's really great and, it's a little difficult to navigate because of just just the way they've laid out the chapters and there's no you know names at the top of the pages too, just open randomly and see where you are but there is a, table of contents so you can find the beginning of a book and then work your way forward to where you want to be it does have the the first numbers and all that so but yeah there's so much more, that Christians have identified as Canon that exists, outside of the 66 books that more or less the Catholic Church, decided for the Protestants that we would hold as Cannon so. Is scripture inerrant yes. Is every jot and Tittle of the Bible scripture not in my opinion based off of my research. Is the Bible infallible yes I believe all 66 books do the job of being available to teach the message intended. Now of course those words can be twisted and corrupted and taught wrong and on and on and on and on. They are available to teach the message intended and capable of and so. When you're moving forward in your Christian walk and you're trying to decide well what do I believe where do I go what do I do this is that Foundation if you start to believe something, that then this directly contradicts. Then we need to understand, what is that contradiction and why does it exist,

is that contradiction because you don't fully understand what is they believe or is that contradiction that you don't fully understand the content matter here, is it because there's a cultural thing being taught in a certain part of script of, there goes it's hard to get around these words of just blanket calling it scripture because of the way I was raised you know is there a context thing where it's a cultural you know cautionary Tale,

which happens a lot so yes we face those issues we've got a question from someone on Twitch, the call themselves haitham 9 kin way I hope I said that right it's hard with you switch to him sometime is it wrong that I love Jesus even though, I'm assuming that was supposed to be the word gay they put geh and so. I'm gonna say it's not wrong to love Jesus no matter who you are or, how you are or what you're into and we don't normally use those kind of words in this context what you've gone you know forward with and saying there, but no it's not wrong to love Jesus Just As You Are, and if something in your life needs to be different that's not my call, that's not Pastor newms is call that's not anyone's call except for between you and God, if you love Jesus and you pursue Jesus and you pursue relationship with God and you study the Bible,

and that is then up to you, if you feel like something in your life is wrong and if you feel like that needs to change that's between you and God.

Can I love cows even though I'm not a Christian someone else asks on Twitch I think you're confusing Christianity with Hinduism, and you can love cows even if you're not a Hindu well the twitch chat is really popping right now it's nice.

 

Pastor Newms:

[1:07:19] Yeah.

 

Pastor Bill:

[1:07:21] All right so we're 13 minutes over our normal time so we will head and wrap this up, I want everyone out there to understand that we want everyone to be able to be a part of what we're doing, and they have a safe space here no matter who you are, what you believe or what your orientation is Haytham 9 Kenway I would love to have a conversation with you off of the live about having a relationship with Jesus and,

your question was there can I ask Jesus for forgiveness I'm really really gay and I think there's a lot of stigma, that you're dealing with in that question alone and so there's a lot to unpack there that I'd like to unpack off the air. What do you asking forgiveness for cuz if it's for being yourself then you know, that's a stigma that you're going to need to deal with that has nothing to do with your relationship with Jesus,

because you come to Jesus as you are but we're going to wrap this up for tonight, this podcast comes out on Wednesday nights at 7 p.m. Central Standard Time anywhere that you can get podcasts every Sunday night at 6:30 p.m. Central Standard time we're here live and you can join us live, and be a part of the conversation and ask questions and we always have a theme that we're going with on the Sunday nights and so we'd love to have people, come in and join the conversation and so for tonight we're going to sign off and we love you guys I hope you have a great week.

 

Pastor Newms:

Stay safe.

 

Pastor Bill:

And, "Until next time..."

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