S3EP79 - Still?!?

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Pastor Bill:
[0:02] Hello and welcome to season 3 episode 79 of the broom Manifesto faith hope and love for the modern Christian I'm Pastor Bill and I'm joined as always by Pastor newms,
how are you Pastor newms Still Waters.

Pastor Newms:
[0:20] What.

[0:27] The last time I shaved yes.
So let's be clear I am not bald I am bald ding my hair is all up there I have to shave it I won't say all.

Pastor Bill:
[0:43] So what happened is newms is a very intense person and at some point is hair went we are done holding on to this hair and just started dropping it.

Pastor Newms:
[0:55] No it decided to just hang out just it just came off I have more hair on my chin.

Pastor Bill:
[1:01] Hudson holding.

Pastor Newms:
[1:13] No when would almost why would almost be for Pony sir.

Pastor Bill:
[1:19] I don't know all right so how was your week.

Pastor Newms:
[1:23] Not till we figure out what you're talking about with ponies.

Pastor Bill:
[1:37] Your weakest ponies.

Pastor Newms:
[1:38] Now my week was good I marked a lot off of my board this week which is always good you guys can't see my board except for yeah little tiny corner right,
and sometimes if I move the camera just so you can see the little man that's drawn right here but you can't see him tonight so sorry I did take down some.

Pastor Bill:
[1:57] No man for you.

Pastor Newms:
[1:58] Some artwork my kids artwork that was here forever and put up a little Sunday Monday I can't ever I don't understand Direction Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday board.

Pastor Bill:
[2:10] I know you don't you're the Navigator want to play games.

Pastor Newms:
[2:14] So I can wipe my meeting times so that way the family when they comes into my office they're like oh meeting,
and so my wife knows when my meetings are and so yeah my week was pretty good though work was good.
Rain who occasionally joins us my daughter graduates 6th grade tomorrow so if you go to her graduation so that's going to be interesting but.
Just busy how was your.

Pastor Bill:
[3:02] My week was all right I got a new keyboard.

Pastor Newms:
[3:05] Actually there's no more ch-ch-ch.

Pastor Bill:
[3:08] There's no words to because I got red switches instead of blue or brown and so there's not a click halfway down it's just a spring-loaded switch with no,
um response halfway on the push there is a slight when you let go of the key where the spring is going back into place you can hear the spring going back into place,
um probably most people wouldn't be able to hear it but I can hear it every time I let go of a key I can hear the spring going back into place,
which is fine it's not that big of a deal yeah so I got my new keyboard and it actually comes apart into two pieces.

Pastor Newms:
[3:53] Its ergonomic.

Pastor Bill:
[3:55] Its ergonomic but then it also comes apart.

Pastor Newms:
[3:58] Ergonomically.

Pastor Bill:
[3:59] Ergonomically so that for you know if you've got a big belly and you need more ergonomically space you then you can have more ergonomical space.

Pastor Newms:
[4:09] Actually it has nothing to do with your belly and everything to do with where your shoulders actually,
because people who have different shoulder sets you know your hands are naturally more,
when you're typing then people who are slender shoulders so it's actually the broad identity of your shoulders not necessarily your belly.

Pastor Bill:
[4:34] But using a traditional keyboard I was having to tuck my arms into my belly,
to reach the keys to type and now with the ergonomic keyboard I slightly have to pull in my belly unless I separate the keyboard pieces and then I can just rest my arms naturally.

Pastor Newms:
[4:49] Because because of how my flaps are I don't know what to call you know.

Pastor Bill:
[4:56] Dude little earlier let's do this.

Pastor Newms:
[4:59] I actually have to I have to do the same thing with one of my arms and pinch my body to type traditionally but I've done it for so many years it's weird I have my work keyboard is more,
ergonomic and it's everything is at an angle,
I used to have one that had like the full split in the middle and was actually like this and it's the most comfortable thing welcome Sadie.

Pastor Bill:
[5:37] Daddy's here now on Twitch.

Pastor Newms:
[5:39] So yeah.

Pastor Bill:
[5:42] Alright so here's this week shirt we've got how many Sunday's do we have left before Pride just.

Pastor Newms:
[5:49] One.

Pastor Bill:
[5:52] Now we have two more sadness.

Pastor Newms:
[5:55] To marchioness yeah too.

Pastor Bill:
[5:56] 20 second then the 29th,
and so two more Sunday's this is this week shirt it says known in the horizontal and then loved in the vertical and this making the shape of a cross known and loot.

Pastor Newms:
[6:10] Phoenix says she hates it.

Pastor Bill:
[6:14] Not my favorite so far that's fine.

Pastor Newms:
[6:17] She says she says you look like garbage.

Pastor Bill:
[6:19] She didn't say that she just said not her favorite.
It takes different styles for different people so I'm a different styles of shirts so anyway this is this week shirt,
and we will be at Pride on the 4th of June so if you're coming to Dallas Pride come and see us if you're not coming to Dallas Pride then,
pray that God would give us favor and that the people that need to know God loves them would be there too much great it's a great shirt bigs,
it's a gray shirt.
But they would be there and we could,
minister to them hug them love them let them know that not all Christians are.

[7:15] Probably unintentionally hopefully unintentionally hateful but that you know there is love God is love and we love them steak,
all right so now it's time for getting another pastors and I have.

Pastor Newms:
[7:34] Got a new deck.

Pastor Bill:
[7:35] A new deck of a second edition interviewed.

Pastor Newms:
[7:40] I have to agree with that red as the background would be would be pretty would be pretty good.

Pastor Bill:
[7:48] I think they shirts come in I got like pink and.
A bluish color this gray color I can't remember what L anyway all right there we go if you had a personal mascot,
what would it be.

[8:26] I would imagine it would be something that you relate to pick up mascot based off of who you are not who you want to be.

Pastor Newms:
[8:36] Yes I will agree with Biggs he is the Grande Osa so.

Pastor Bill:
[8:41] Grande Ossa the big bar.

Pastor Newms:
[8:44] Used to Big Bear the big bar.

Pastor Bill:
[8:48] Oh so Grand a month yeah also is Spanish for Bear anyway.

Pastor Newms:
[8:58] Grande Grande de I just him saying it wrong it's the right word I just don't even speak English right.

Pastor Bill:
[9:05] Anywhere expert don't sprechen to nothing.

Pastor Newms:
[9:08] I love I love,
somewhat what time said something to me about you don't do well pronouncing words that aren't English look at the person who's like if you ever heard me speak normally like I don't pronounce English well homie like.

Pastor Bill:
[9:24] I don't even do English welcome home.

Pastor Newms:
[9:26] I don't do that well.

Pastor Bill:
[9:29] But you're my first language.

Pastor Newms:
[9:31] Yeah I have I have mad respect for anyone who speaks multiple languages because I can't speak one correctly.

Pastor Bill:
[9:47] An animal mascot.

Pastor Newms:
[9:49] So I would have to say if we're picking if we're picking an animal based on what we would want to be and something that would kind of shows are.
I won't say core beliefs but our thought processes and things I would have to say a dragon just because I've always,
I felt very connected to dragons and you know typically,
their ideals for most Mythos is not all but most lineup pretty closely with mine but what do you think.

Pastor Bill:
[10:40] I'm I think my mascots an armadillo.

Pastor Newms:
[10:43] Armadillo can you explain why.

Pastor Bill:
[10:49] Um I'm pretty guarded as far as letting people in it takes a lot of proving before,
let you in at just like an armadillo but then once you've proven yourself I'm pretty sweet and loyal,
and kind and then I got I can't before she was with my nails and and I can be if I have to be not have to be but if I'm pushed too hard I can you know open up a can of,
leprosy on your butt.

Pastor Newms:
[11:21] I I have to agree with with big.

Pastor Bill:
[11:25] You want to see me roll up in a ball.

Pastor Newms:
[11:27] See you roll up in a ball because what you just explained without the rolling up in a ball you as a possum.

Pastor Bill:
[11:38] Possums don't carry leprosy.

Pastor Newms:
[11:41] Opossums carry everything.

Pastor Bill:
[11:43] And they're not sweet possums are not sweet.

Pastor Newms:
[11:45] Yes they are they can be very good boys.

Pastor Bill:
[11:47] Even when you get to be friendly with them they're still like.

Pastor Newms:
[11:52] So is a cat have you met and younger.

Pastor Bill:
[11:57] I didn't choose a cat.

Pastor Newms:
[11:59] I'm just saying like saying you're mean so I'm.

Pastor Bill:
[12:06] Honey why am I mean.

Pastor Newms:
[12:09] You mean I would like to see you roll up in a ball though.

Pastor Bill:
[12:13] Okay once you open them.

Pastor Newms:
[12:24] Click the internet's new thing it's not do a flip it's roll up in a ball.

Pastor Bill:
[12:27] It's roll up in a ball.
Do the ball roll over the ball I'll see you ball.

Pastor Newms:
[12:32] Do the ball do a ball thing.

Pastor Bill:
[12:35] Do the ball fine I'm sorry the what the what what what are we what what is this trend what are we doing.

Pastor Newms:
[12:42] We're going to need some clarification on this.

Pastor Bill:
[12:44] Oh you know we're different we're dipping things in soy sauce.

Pastor Newms:
[12:47] No we are not no we are not I did not participate in that and we'll probably never participate in that.

Pastor Bill:
[12:57] Okay so tonight's episode is called.

[13:05] Bad Brains on YouTube says Ball but don't cry while you're there.

Pastor Newms:
[13:10] Let's see I could take this two ways I could take this the way of balling is crying,
funny punny way that y'all live your lives or I could take it as.

Pastor Bill:
[13:25] We are pretty puntastic family.

Pastor Newms:
[13:27] She could completely see you balled up and crying so I'm not sure how to take what she said but I'm going to I'm going to assume it was the puntastic Miss of just how you guys breathe.
It's something.

Pastor Bill:
[13:49] All right so tonight's episode is called still and so let's start in 325 ad.
And newms you go ahead and tell the story from 325 ad.

Pastor Newms:
[14:06] 325 ad let me think what could have happened in 325 ad um I think there was a council,
so so it's funny for clarity for everyone who is listening that might not know this is my favorite story,
probably from,
all of church history this is one of my favorite stories and,
Pastor Bill today is like he sent me his notes and he's like this is what we're talking about,
by the way do you know what this term means and I was like now I was about to have to Google it so go ahead and he was like well it was.

Pastor Bill:
[14:56] Cool the bishop of Egypt they don't necessarily.

Pastor Newms:
[14:59] The bishop of Egypt he he wasn't necessary yeah true sorry a bishop in Egypt had a belief,
that Jesus was not God,
would you like to tell the specific of what the belief States and then I'll tell the story around it.

Pastor Bill:
[15:21] Right so Airy arianism teaches that,
Jesus is not was not never was never will be God that he was the first of God's creations,
and that he served the purpose of coming to Earth,
to teach us how to be right with God and all things were created through Jesus and that Jesus did ascended to the right hand of the father,
but just a little lower than God and this is what arianism teach us.

Pastor Newms:
[16:03] If for those of you for those of you out there that have listened to the podcast for a long time you already know where this is going,
you've heard this story but it's a great story and I begged to get to tell it again even though we've told it so at this Council,
where all the Bishops had come together to make decisions on Church leadership like they were doing in those times.

Pastor Bill:
[16:29] In a place called niacin.

Pastor Newms:
[16:30] Nicaea this is the same area the same type of council that decided which books of the Bible,
make up the Bible what you know different things like this so they were discussing and one of the things that got brought up was this whole thing about Jesus not being God,
and there was.

Pastor Bill:
[16:50] The specific topic was the trinity.

Pastor Newms:
[16:52] The trinity,
and this particular Bishop brought up well Jesus isn't here's the reason blah blah blah and got really kind of,
loud and heated about it and some people viewed it as disrespectful one of the people who viewed it.

Pastor Bill:
[17:12] Not disrespectful to the discourse.

Pastor Newms:
[17:15] No no this is for disrespectful to God.

Pastor Bill:
[17:17] To Jesus.

Pastor Newms:
[17:19] So to be clear at the Council of nicaea the emperor was there and any physical violence in front of the emperor,
what's the death sentence but knowing this a gentleman named Nicholas,
who is better known as Santa Claus.

Pastor Bill:
[17:39] He was the bishop of Myra.

Pastor Newms:
[17:42] So st. Nicholas walks across the room.

Pastor Bill:
[17:46] Not a thing at this point.

Pastor Newms:
[17:47] Not a saying at this point right but the person we now know as a saint.

Pastor Bill:
[17:51] Because of the miracle that happened.

Pastor Newms:
[17:53] Because yeah because the the supposed Miracle walked across the room and,
smacked him so hard in the mouth that knocked him over knocked him right out of his chair,
and and that's my Santa Claus after this point because of creating violence in front of the emperor he was of course arrested,
which I don't know the validity that's why I'm not going to call it a miracle but supposedly when they changed his clothes to put him into prison the guards the next morning came up and he was wearing a whole new set of white clothes and,
they were like who gave that to you and and it's like well I'll give you a hint um.

Pastor Bill:
[18:49] They were like we're here to take you to the Executioner except that's not what you were wearing on me lock the cell.

Pastor Newms:
[18:56] So how did you get those clothes oh well I can't remember was it Mary or Jesus that he said visited him.

Pastor Bill:
[19:05] I don't.

Pastor Newms:
[19:06] I don't remember off the story I'm sorry but he had a visitation,
and the person gave him clothes and so because of that the emperor was like well we're not killing him today and pardoned him and that is also how you know in order to become a saint in the Catholic Church you must have,
miracles must happen to you from you around you excetera Etc and so because of that event that is the miracle that,
was attached to him that allowed him to become Saint Nicholas that we know.

Pastor Bill:
[19:41] After he died.

Pastor Newms:
[19:42] After he died and my Santa Claus so that's my.

Pastor Bill:
[19:48] Taken away from him hundreds of years later because of said the Santa Claus lore and then was restored later back to him because that stupid.

Pastor Newms:
[20:00] It's not his fault yep.
But anyway so the reason that we're saying still is because,
I'm assuming this is why we're saying it because I didn't talk about to the about this part the problem is is we are still to this day dealing with people who believe,
that Jesus was just an angel or just a prophet or etc etc.

Pastor Bill:
[20:46] So there's this new new ish movement called the Torah movement,
and originally it didn't start in Christian circles it started in secular Circles by people who saw the value of Old Testament beliefs and decided to start keeping Torah,
they don't consider themselves Jews they don't consider themselves Christians they don't consider themselves,
religious in any way they just saw the value of Torah,
and then it spread into becoming a religion and then Christians started becoming joining this Torah movement and then no longer considering themselves,
Christian's anymore because now they no longer believe,
Jesus Is God and they don't believe in the need for the propitiation of sin through crucifixion and sacrifice that even though you know.
With the Torah so.

Pastor Newms:
[21:52] So what kind of kind of the whole point of the Old Law.

Pastor Bill:
[21:58] So I just wanted to I just wanted to point out some some some scriptures where we talk about how we know,
Jesus is God,
or at least he was before he became a man because why didn't I put that in my notes the Bible talks about him giving up Divinity to become a man.
And then Paul talks about that man then being exalted back,
the position of above everything got it.

Pastor Newms:
[22:41] And you can't give up what you didn't ever have.

Pastor Bill:
[22:45] That's true you can't get up with you didn't have so and and and these people that have these beliefs,
they're tricky their Trixie because they will call out John 1:1 and they will say yeah yeah in the beginning was the word and the Word was with God,
but that doesn't mean the Word was God except when we go read John 11.

[23:19] John 11 and we're going to read through three.

[23:29] It says,
in the beginning was the word and the Word was with God and that's where they stop quoting it but the next part is and the Word was God,
he was with God in the beginning all things were created through him and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created,
so the mental gymnastics,
that has to go on to quote John 11 as part of your defense to claim that Jesus isn't God.

[24:04] Is staggering and if you're looking at that and you're going I don't understand how does that what does this word thing so if we stay in the same chapter John one,
and we go down to verses 14 through 18 K the word became flesh and dwelt Among Us,
we observed his glory the glory as the one and only son from the father full of grace and truth,
John testified concerning him and he's claimed this was the one of whom I said the one coming after me ranks ahead of me because he existed before me,
indeed we have all received Grace upon Grace from his fullness for the law was given through Moses,
Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ,
no one has ever seen God the one and only son who is himself God and is at the father's side he has revealed himself.

[25:07] That's in the csb verse 18 there the phrase who is himself God,
it makes me uncomfortable that they included that in the csb translation because it's not in the majority manuscripts that's in a minority manuscript if you go read the King James,
it's not even there it's not part of the original Greek that they the manuscript Greek that they,
used to make the New Testament in King James is time and even now it's not the majority manuscript it's a minority manuscript so makes me uncomfortable I believe the phrase I believe that,
forgot to actually pull up my hard copy Bible I believe that phrase that Jesus is God you know but it makes me uncomfortable to use that Minority manuscript chunk.

[26:05] Just because it agrees with you know the way we believe that's it's not really how you're supposed to be translating the Bible but that's my personal belief not,
yeah anything else okay so clearly from John chapter 1 we can see that,
Jesus Is God Jesus was God in the beginning was the word and I've always,
personally not always but for the last decade or two I replaced that word word with the word motive because it's.

[26:42] We've conflated in our religious beliefs the word word meaning Bible,
word of God you know and then then we equate this is Jesus in my hands and that's simply not the case,
but motive actually expresses the concept that's being taught in John 1:1 so the beginning was the motive,
and the motive was with God and the were in the motive was the word and the motive was God he was with God in the beginning all things were created through him and apart from him not one thing created,
that was created has been created the motive became flesh and dwelt Among Us well why,
why does that sit well because you do things because you're driven by a motive your you have this motive to do something,
the motive of creation the reason why God created was.

Pastor Newms:
[27:39] And in that word,
logos is something said by implication a topic also reasoning or motive by accent by extension a compulsion,
that's not the word compulsion a come.

[28:02] Put competish Co MP UTA tion specifically.

Pastor Bill:
[28:10] Computation.

Pastor Newms:
[28:11] Yes thank you specifically the Divine expression that is Christ,
accountable I mean account cause communication concerning Doctrine matter mouth preaching question you know there's a whole list of words that it can be.

Pastor Bill:
[28:28] All of that to say it's not just the.

Pastor Newms:
[28:31] Yeah.

Pastor Bill:
[28:32] Thing that comes out of your mouth it's the thing that comes out of your mouth and why what's the why behind it.
Um
and so that's what that is and that becomes flesh well that is Jesus Jesus becomes flesh he is that thing and it was in the beginning,
you know the chiefest of time the you know,
the first and foremost and I'll and I'll give the tour of movement revelation.

[29:28] Right to Laird Ephesus Smyrna pergamum Montana city was Philadelphia but that's not right.

[29:52] Maybe it only makes sense in the King James.

[29:58] Sorry guys I do like the leg return.
The lag I don't like the lag when I when I had to look something up because I forgot to put it in my notes.

Pastor Newms:
[30:12] Oh

Pastor Bill:
[30:19] All right yeah Revelations 3:14,
it says and unto the angel of the Church of the lady of Seasons write these things saith the amen the faithful and true witness the beginning of the creation of God.
And I'll give them that in English that sounds a whole lot like Jesus was the first thing God created.
But in Greek the idea being expressed is Chief.

[31:00] Um principality magistrate power principle rule.

[31:07] The ruler of the creation the magistrate of the creation of God the,
principality of the creation of God it's the person who starts it it's the person who oversees it it's it using this context it doesn't mean the first thing to be created,
um
and in King James it's time they probably understood that turn of phrase to mean what it means but when we read it face value today,
I'll give them that that verse sounds like Jesus was a creation the first of the creations.

[31:49] But as definitely not what's being said there and even people that try to defend,
this Torah movement they'll say things like well I don't need any of that Greek stuff I've got my I've got my King James that's all I need,
I'm good I don't need any that Greek and Hebrew stuff I've got all I need right here,
and I'm like hmm that's how you lead to misunderstandings of translation because,
the King James in your hand wasn't written using the same vernacular that you speak now to none of the cultural context of what's going on in the people that wrote and who that's wrote,
you don't understand that cultural context.

[32:41] And so for cultural context let's turn to make sure this is the right note that I'm about to talk about yes we're like we're going to turn to John.

[32:57] Chapter 8 verses 48 through 59 big Sid Revelation oh what was the rebbe the verse in Revelation.

Pastor Newms:
[33:09] Where did Big say that.

Pastor Bill:
[33:12] On Twitch he wrote revelation.

Pastor Newms:
[33:15] Why didn't restream pick that up.

Pastor Bill:
[33:17] I'm looking at restraint.
Biggs it was Revelations chapter 3 and verse 14 was the verse that sounds in the King James if we want to read it in the aren't was it 14.
Kareem CSP it says right to the angel of the church in Letty ousia thus says the a man the faithful and true witness the originator of God's creation the originator.

[33:54] That word makes more sense in modern vernacular with what the message that verse is okay so for cultural context now we're going to turn to John chapter 8 verses 48 through 59 and this is a cultural context thing that,
that I see missing in their understanding they'll bring this up even,
um starting in verse 48 the Jews responded to him Jesus aren't we right and saying that you're a Samaritan and have a demon like them is fighting words first off,
you don't come to a teacher a rabbi who has you know hundreds of followers and call them a Samaritan and a demon-possessed Samaritan that's just.

[34:48] So in 49 Jesus replies I do not have a demon he didn't say he wasn't Samaritan you noticed that he didn't even touch that he was like I'm not touching your racism with a 10-foot Pole,
I do not have a demon Jesus answered on the contrary I honor my father and you dishonor me,
I do not seek my own Glory there is one who seeks it and judges truly I tell you if anyone keeps my word he will never see death,
then the Jews said now we know you have a demon,
Abraham died and so did the prophets you say if anyone keeps my word he will never taste death are you greater than our Father Abraham who died and the prophets died who do you claim to be.

[35:34] If I glorify myself Jesus answered my glory is,
my father about whom you say he is our God he is the one who glorifies me and you do not know him but I know him,
if I were to say I don't know him I would be a liar like you,
but I do know him and I keep his word your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day he saw it and was glad,
the Jews replied you aren't 50 years old yet and you've seen Abraham Jesus said to them truly I tell you,
before Abraham was I am so they picked up stones to throw at him but Jesus was hidden and he went out of the Temple.

[36:23] So this phrase I am Jesus just literally called himself God,
just point blank those words I am aren't you don't even say them in their culture because of the fact that God refers to himself as I am.

Pastor Newms:
[36:39] Uh-huh.

Pastor Bill:
[36:42] You don't even say things like I am ready to go to the store that's not a phrase they would have used because it had the words I am in it,
they would have chosen a different phrasing,
because that's the name of God and Jesus didn't you say that he called himself that and,
so there's that cultural context of well Jesus just called himself God that's why they picked up the rocks to Stone him because he just created he just he just made the biggest hair radical.

Pastor Newms:
[37:12] Uh-huh.

Pastor Bill:
[37:14] In their culture. Right he called himself God,
and instead of understanding that and seeing that the Torah movement Defenders then pivot,
to Exodus why is that not in my notes eat.

[37:39] Why are my notes missing notes.

Pastor Newms:
[37:43] I don't know what you did homie.

Pastor Bill:
[37:45] I don't know what it is either I've got notes in my head that aren't on my page Exodus chapter 3.

[38:01] And so we'll go to Exodus chapter 3 in those they'll bring up the story and it'll say,
meanwhile Moses was shepherding the flock of his father-in-law Jethro the priest of Midian,
sorry Midian he led the flock to The Far Side of the Wilderness and came to Horeb the Mountain of God then the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire within a bush and that's where they stop reading and they said,
see there it was an angel of the Lord in the bush not God was the angel of the Lord who called himself I am,
and so that was Jesus in the bush but that wasn't God in the bush but then if you keep reading.

[38:44] So we stopped,
at verse 2 now so let's finish verse to as Moses look he said the Bush was on fire but was not consumed so Moses thought I must go over there and look at this remarkable sight why isn't the bush burning up,
when the Lord saw that he gone over to look God called out to him from the Bush Moses Moses,
God speaks through the bush.
It's God talking it may have identified it as an angel of the Lord inhabiting the bush but that's God's voice coming out of the fire.

[39:33] God calls himself I am in this statement it could repeat key repeatedly says God said God replied even when it gets to the I am it says God replied to Moses I am who I am.

[39:53] And so it's this it's these mental gymnastics to try to defend this theology,
that leads you away from Christ away from faith in Christ,
and into this place where remember we talked about when Paul talks about circumcision physical circumcision he talks about your picking up a piece of the law,
and when you do that when you pick up one piece your then,
required to carry out all the law and when you do that you've made the work of Christ null and void of no effect,
there was no point in Jesus coming and and you're choosing to to give up everything Jesus came and did.

[40:45] And that's a dangerous place to be not because I think you can lose your salvation right because,
once you truly believe you believe,
and those who leave us they never truly believe so if you are are able to be convinced by a snake oil salesman,
that,
geez know Jesus is really God and and that's not what the Bible means and you're you're a be able to convince it that you probably didn't believe to begin with,
because once you believe you believe,
there's no one can come to me right now and say you see there Jesus doesn't exist and that's not how it bubbly you can't convince me of that because I wasn't convinced to believe it,
I believe it because I believe it it's faith,
I don't need evidence I don't need you to tell me something different,
I believe it to be the truth I wasn't mentally convinced of it through some gymnastics of logic that's not how Faith Works.

[42:01] There are those that believe religious statements,
because they were convinced to believe them or they were coerced into believe them or they were you know,
feared into believing them coerced into making statements that they didn't actually understand right,
and this is this is one of the reasons why we support deconstruction,
as an organization because if you were coerced and you're actually not headed for eternity with God you should sussed that out now instead of when it's too late right,
um but this Torah movement thing it's just it's cool.

Pastor Newms:
[42:50] It's weird yeah it's yet another one of those movements where.
It doesn't even like as it's happening you're like wait a second what those two things like don't even match.

Pastor Bill:
[43:15] Now we're not and just to just to be clear we're not talking about the Hebrew Roots movement,
there is a Hebrew Roots movement that very very intensely believes that Jesus is God and he is Lord and and but what they believe that to be a true disciple of Christ,
you need to live like Christ dead and Christ lives according to precepts that he found in Torah,
right and so.

Pastor Newms:
[43:48] Why so he followed Torah.

Pastor Bill:
[43:50] So that's what they believe the Hebrew Roots movement believes that for my own physical,
edification and to truly satisfy at the end of the day when I look in the mirror and I say I'm a true disciple of Christ I need to do XYZ,
not because salvation is tied to it not because righteousness is tied to it but for my own satisfaction for myself,
I need to keep Torah and that's perfectly fine,
you're allowed to say I'm not going to drink to drink alcohol today because I believe that's bad for me I'm not gonna do this today because I believe that's good for me you're allowed to do all of that,
all of that the dividing line is when you start saying things like,
Jesus isn't God and didn't need to die for your sins,
and and start literally teaching a different gospel than what's taught,
by Paul and the other Apostles here in this tiny portion at the back of the Bible its you know compared to the rest of the Bible is this tiny portion.

Pastor Newms:
[45:07] And it's something that you know so often,
we deal with in the modern world people trying to redefine or change the meaning of and.
Often times we have to look at the whole like okay well you know o the spirit the Holy Spirit told me this,
and you're like but that is completely opposite of the foundings of the teachers in the Bible if something is completely,
opposite scripture or the Bible however you want to look at that that's where we have to go mmm does that does that truly,
shake out especially if you start writing new New Testaments to justify what you want to do and you would you like to answer Juno,
hi Juno it's been a minute how you doing also side note.

Pastor Bill:
[46:25] Well the question on Twitch from Juno Malone who asks how do you pronounce it Collision well you pronounce it ich lesion and,
don't worry I get that question a lot so here's what happened is the Greek word for church or Community is ekklesia,
ekklesia so it should be a clear seein right but that doesn't have an English ring to it,
um and so I changed it to eke lesion for our purposes but it is occlusion coming from ekklesia and coming from ekklesia basically meaning of the church.
So there you go of the church or of the community is basically what equation means.

Pastor Newms:
[47:17] Which is also why.

Pastor Bill:
[47:19] Of the church House Of The Community House.

Pastor Newms:
[47:21] When Pastor Bill made our website a collision house.com,
II I tried to spell it for about six months and then was like we're going to have to do something.

Pastor Bill:
[47:37] It's then I got our ekk. House.

Pastor Newms:
[47:40] Yeah.

Pastor Bill:
[47:41] URL and email addresses and all that because.

Pastor Newms:
[47:45] Occlusion house in dyslexia don't go well together.

Pastor Bill:
[47:46] Somebody couldn't spell Ecclesia and over and over and over and over again.

Pastor Newms:
[47:50] Does it I couldn't get into my own email.

Pastor Bill:
[47:55] He's like past news it dude how do you spell it again.

Pastor Newms:
[47:57] Yeah anyway yes thank you for the question you're welcome for the answer.

Pastor Bill:
[48:12] All right give anything else your dad I know you were.

Pastor Newms:
[48:15] No I was I was I was I was wrapped up with my with my thought process I wrapped up before I,
went to Geno's question but it definitely.
It is something that I've actually had a couple conversations over the last couple of days about things that don't necessarily make sense because,
what they call themselves isn't even matching what they are,
things like the tour movement the Torah movement but we'll ignore large parts of the Torah,
and everything else attached to the Torah will just focus on the parts that we like and ignore you know so it's interesting when we.

Pastor Bill:
[49:04] The real in the rib to me the really interesting part about the whole thing is that Matthew Mark Luke John James Peter Paul said all these people they were Torah keepers,
it was Torah Keepers who wrote the New Testament and said.

[49:23] We were given the laws of Moses through you know by God through Moses but now Grace and Truth has come,
through Jesus and and Paul said no no I don't hate the Lyle of the law the law taught me right from wrong but now,
I'm under the grace of Christ and while everything may not be good for me I'm free to do whatever I want,
and while everything may not edify me I'm free to do whatever I want now should I well no because there's things that want to kill me,
there's things that will literally kill me and literally Lead Me Away from where I need to be but I could if I wanted to,
and that's I think a lot of people don't get that about the gospel that the New Testament actually preaches it is for freedom,
that Christ set us free it's not for slavery it didn't set us free from the bondage that we were in so that we could just be in a new bondage he set us free so that,
we have freedom we can choose to do whatever we want it's not necessarily good for us right but but we have the freedom to.
Anyway that's a whole nother that's a whole nother topic and a whole nother Ranch.

Pastor Newms:
[50:52] That's a whole nother topic whole nother topic that we've gone down a couple times so.

Pastor Bill:
[50:58] Be aware and careful out there because the Bible warns that from the get-go there were people who were teaching other gospels and that that will just continue to ramp up,
people will continue to.

[51:15] Bring just completely Twisted things that they think they've heard from the scriptures and honestly,
when you talk to a tour of movement person and you talk to a Muslim,
there's not really much difference between the way the two of them see the world they talk about Jesus the same way,
they have World Views that are very similar so it's not really a new thing at all it's it's a bunch of old things regurgitated into a new package,
and it's not right,
weird and honestly you won't hear me say this a lot but it's wrong,
I don't I don't say that a lot because I think it's up to you to decide but this is one that is just point blank wrong.

[52:16] All right so this podcast comes out every Wednesday night at 7 p.m. wherever you,
get your podcast and we also record it live on Sunday nights at 6:30 p.m. Central Standard time on Twitch YouTube and Facebook and you could go to our website,
EK K dot house to find out which twitch which Facebook and which YouTube that you can go to to participate live,
um what are you laughing about Jesse something wrong again.

Pastor Newms:
[52:49] No no no you say it you say it correctly every week but,
there's just something about the phrase which to itch.

Pastor Bill:
[53:00] Which witch.

Pastor Newms:
[53:00] That makes that makes my mind giggle because it's like which twitch which Facebook and with just that which to which is makes me it makes me giggle because.

Pastor Bill:
[53:11] It makes me happy to say which twitch.

Pastor Newms:
[53:11] Close I know and that makes me giggle as well I'm in a good mood today that's weird anyway continue.

Pastor Bill:
[53:18] And then as we said you know throughout Journal Malone has a question or that brings on YouTube says or big says these are people that are participating life in the conversation and we would like to invite you to come participate live as well.

Intro And Outro Music

Pastor Bill:
[53:32] So hopefully you can join us some Sunday evening at 6:30 p.m. and that's all we have for you this week I love you and I hope you have a great.

Pastor Newms:
[53:41] Be safe out there y'all.

Pastor Bill:
[53:42] Until next time.

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