S3Ep91 - Is Salvation The End Goal?
Pastor Newms: [0:00] Okay there hi hi. 
Pastor Bill: [0:03] Hi hello and. 
Pastor Newms: [0:06] Wait no no no no you are still right there in the little corner you don't get to say. 
Pastor Bill: [0:13] Some lower corner. 
Pastor Newms: [0:14] Hello and welcome see because you're right, in the corner because I was getting there I was waiting for Biggs to say working on through the light and the picture stool and so now I'll say, hello and welcome to the manifesto live recording yay, if you're not listening to it live ha you should come join us live and then you would have got to enjoy that part where I said live recording not just the brand Manifesto season 3 episode 91, so yeah faith hope and love for the modern Christian I'm pastor newms and down in the corner, is Pastor Bill yeah that looked cool because it didn't quite the refresh rate of the camera can't quite capture the finger correctly and it like, Okay so Pastor Bill how was your week, so your camera your fingers not doing it. 
Pastor Bill: [1:28] My two oldest had. 
Pastor Newms: [1:33] They had the whole school. 
Pastor Bill: [1:48] You know girls who were now calling the space cowboy and um, I was quoting the song and he was like bass Cowboy that's a cool nickname and I was like you got that boy from now on you're the space cowboy. 
Pastor Newms: [2:08] I still prefer to call him biddy Gert. 
Pastor Bill: [2:11] Biddy. 
Pastor Newms: [2:23] But I'm pretty sure if I remember correctly your wife band that so while I was out there the last time we are not calling him that. 
Pastor Bill: [2:36] Right so they involve the school and, I found out it was going to take over 10 grand to put a new engine in. 
Pastor Newms: [2:59] Okay so to touch base on things that have been said in chat since you started talking, it's all good Sadie you're here to do I know you're down in the classroom, so that's one of the updates for us is we started school this week and we're doing hold your your kids should start one of yours just started school the other started school last year and mine just stopped. 
Pastor Bill: [3:30] We're rotating. 
Pastor Newms: [3:31] Yeah we're rotating. 
Pastor Bill: [3:32] Aspects of life. 
Pastor Newms: [3:34] So we started homeschooling and it's it's it's going well, says is very is getting settled real well our office is a little bit recce, because we put other things in front of cleaning the office and so, it's it's a little it's a little dirty but that's okay that's okay we'll get there, and yes Biggs we now have a red glare on the poster because the white wall was irritating me so I put it back up and of course when I did we noticed that the in order to balance my face with the live light over here we opted to I have to just make that light red as opposed to trying to turn it up and turn this one down and turn the one above it up and did it I was like let me just turn this one red and I gotta say I don't hate, the red glow on the brothers, I I almost want to have you moved the picture over an inch so the red glow on the brothers ends up being in the middle. 
[4:55] But um so we might just put another hole in the wall there just a little over um, but the week's been real good work was work was good I don't think, move the lamp well because it's in the corner which is where a lamp should be, and aesthetically that makes the most sense over there. 
Pastor Bill: [5:27] He's like I'd rather I'd rather. 
Pastor Newms: [5:28] So no. 
Pastor Bill: [5:30] I'd rather move the wall then move the limb. 
Pastor Newms: [5:35] I wouldn't because it's so so says it's right in front of me his desk is over in that corner, and he's got a professional like hooked to the computer Sound Processing make music keyboard thing, and so, it's in the right spot above it and I don't really want to we'd have to move all and I'll put another hole in the wall I'll do it myself, I say that then it's your come over it's gonna be crooked he's gonna fix it anyway um so the week was pretty good like I said we got a lot done chords, tons of stuff it's good it's good. 
Pastor Bill: [6:31] Good good good good good good good. 
Pastor Newms: [6:33] So now, the part of the podcast that I don't like that I did, every single actually it's not crooked my camera's crooked actually because I turned my camera, no you're right it might be crooked I don't know dude I'm half blind I don't do these things, the wife hasn't come up here since I put it back up and let's be honest. 
Pastor Bill: [7:10] All my stuff looks crooked because, my cameras at a weird angle and so either I'm crooked or everything else is. 
Pastor Newms: [7:18] You say the eye knows but the eye is Two Doors Down. 
Pastor Bill: [7:26] Who's there. 
Pastor Newms: [7:28] So no no it doesn't so my grandmother is a wonderful wonderful person but she has this thing where she can look at something from, anywhere any point of a room any that's one level and you're like no it's not it's perfectly that I leveled it before I hung it son level whatever go get the level stick it up there it'll be like the little bubble go, and you like that is if it's barely off level it's not perfect it is off level and you're like but the bubbles just like on the edge of the this is level area it's not in the center fine I'm not she's just like that it's crazy it is crazy so, if you had to wear a button at all times, anytime you're wearing clothes let's preface that six of the flash okay with a maximum of six words on it describing your outlook on life, what would your button say. 
Pastor Bill: [8:42] So now we're wearing Flair. 
Pastor Newms: [8:43] Yes yes from yes from what was that what was the what's the restaurant that that part of the movie is based on. 
Pastor Bill: [8:58] You have Fridays is worth based on ya. 
Pastor Newms: [9:00] Yeah yeah I'm not sure how I could hear him, with my headset on I normally can't but I straight hurt says give me the answer, okay six words, go your self right now no no that's not that's not proper. 
Pastor Bill: [9:27] What I've been saying for years is already six words life sucks and then you die. 
Pastor Newms: [9:34] That's seven life sucks. 
Pastor Bill: [9:36] Life sucks and then you die. 
Pastor Newms: [9:54] Do you mind seven. 
[10:01] No it's 8 I don't know man I don't know. 
Pastor Bill: [10:07] Go to ekk. House to get your life sucks and then you die pins. 
Pastor Newms: [10:12] Can we get the 144 Biggs also life something and then she leaves your butt. 
Pastor Bill: [10:24] Non words. 
Pastor Newms: [10:25] It's nine words and so is to live is Christ to die is gain it was eight I was like. 
Pastor Bill: [10:32] That's it where it's done. 
[10:37] Alive to Christ dead to sin. 
Pastor Newms: [10:49] Shorter but I can't think of any that are six I thought I thought maybe like you know well here we go again. 
Pastor Bill: [11:00] Well here we go again. 
Pastor Newms: [11:01] You know you enter into a store you're like well here we go again your wife's like hey I need you to welp we go again you got a package in you know you got to build something well here we go again. 
Pastor Bill: [11:12] I mean you could you could go with five words and they could be a good say Tuesdays it's always Tuesdays if you would be like what do you mean it's always Tuesday. 
[11:36] I only care on days ending in queue. 
Pastor Newms: [11:38] All right all joking aside I don't know man all joking aside I actually don't know what, to sum up my motto in six words would be nearly impossible I mean. 
Pastor Bill: [11:59] You can't have beauty without pain. 
Pastor Newms: [12:03] Don't be a yeah love people don't be a there you go six words, there's mine. 
Pastor Bill: [12:19] People don't be a penis. 
Pastor Newms: [12:20] There's there's mine. 
Pastor Bill: [12:37] I need to find my buddy cross and put them up on my shelf. 
Pastor Newms: [12:40] You should you should I was really sad in the middle of covid when two of my girls had covid they did a Moby pop-up shop in Nashville, and we had two confirmed cases of covid and me and my wife sat down and we were like I look at my wife and I'm like baby. 
Pastor Bill: [13:04] Is it worth it. 
Pastor Newms: [13:05] What if I just go and leave everyone else here I've only been exposed a little, a lot like I can wear mask the whole time and she's like if you got someone sick if you found out, there was like everyone they are got sick you get to heaven at the end of time whatever the case is and you're like congratulations you killed 14 people by accident how would you feel I was like yeah I know I'm can't do it I just really really want to and I believe it was bigs actually offered to go up there, for me just so I could get like the stuff I didn't really want I don't care about the food I just wanted to stuff because I like to collect, stuff I mean it's kind of one of my things dragons like to hoard things it happens um, so and I was like no I don't want you to drive into downtown Nashville that's just it's brutal now after you get off work and speed be a whole thing so. 
Pastor Bill: [14:16] Bill old time. 
Pastor Newms: [14:17] It's a whole thing getting in right now everything in Nashville is under construction everything. 
Pastor Bill: [14:23] We can see behind you. 
Pastor Newms: [14:26] Yeah he means like I hoard. 
Pastor Bill: [14:30] Oh 
Pastor Newms: [14:30] My yeah and like we cleaned out a closet just for additional things and there's you know, 20-something boxes of books outside that are slowly getting moved in as we get book, bookshelves in here so all right I think we are now officially warmed up it's been 20 minutes. 
Pastor Bill: [14:56] Indeed League indeed lie. 
Pastor Newms: [14:58] Congratulations so tonight we are talking, about something that is extremely important and that very often, we as the capital city Church fail at miserably over and over and over again and so I titled, this one because while you've been gone Pastor Bill except for last week they have all been very very clever titles, I haven't been clever titles they've just been really cruddy questions but um. 
[15:43] You know it's one of the things so I titled this one is salvation the end goal and, you know this is a leading question let's be honest this is a question that's made to go yeah of course because, it is to a degree it should be our goal to help people find Salvation, and to have salvation and to live like we have said salvation, but the thing I want to talk about is the factor of, what else so we have the whole aspect of, the text so I'm going to have to type it out my bad so Matthew 28, we're going to do we're going to do 18 through 20 but we're going to talk about a little more than that but that's what we're going to truly. 
Pastor Bill: [17:01] The Great Commission. 
Pastor Newms: [17:02] Suck the Great Commission so so often, you know in the church capital c not individual sees because some churches are doing it correctly in the capital c church we forget the. 
[17:23] Biggest Commission in my opinion that Jesus gives us, here's a thing you should go to and I say it's the greatest even though my favorite is, love you know love God love people, you know love thy neighbor you know the things he says like that you know but in my mind in order to do this in order to do this commission you have to love people anyway because you can't, do it without loving people so let's jump into it so to be clear the Great Commission, we'll jump back to 16 the eleven disciples traveled to Galilee to the mountain where Jesus had directed them when they saw him they worshipped but some doubted Jesus came near to them and said to them all authority has been given to me in heaven and on Earth, go therefore and Make Disciples of all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you and remember I am with you always to the End of the Age so. 
[18:40] You know people look at this and they think to themselves okay we have to go Witness we've got to get people saved that's the Great Commission and. 
Pastor Bill: [18:55] We take a second look at the the word Authority there. 
Pastor Newms: [18:58] I thought that's a good word yeah we definitely can uh-huh. 
Pastor Bill: [19:07] I just I'm here I'm here reading it and I'm like we need to talk about that for a second because it is Authority but it's also jurisdiction Liberty Power right strength, but what really stuck out to me is privileged. 
Pastor Newms: [19:22] Huh. 
Pastor Bill: [19:23] All privileges given me in heaven and in Earth, so we talked we talked you know in our culture we talk a lot about privilege. 
Pastor Newms: [19:32] Mmm. 
Pastor Bill: [19:33] Are you have privilege you can do that because you have privilege you ate as believers, anyway yeah. 
Pastor Newms: [19:52] End, you know I find it interesting when you start breaking down this so much. 
[20:08] The first off the power, the privilege to say so the aspects of having it the fact that it was delegated is one of those other nice words. 
Pastor Bill: [20:24] Delegated influence. 
Pastor Newms: [20:25] Yeah so it's given, I do like that it says the force and I know that means not what we mean it to be, according to this Jesus was full of the force. 
Pastor Bill: [20:40] Full of force. 
Pastor Newms: [20:41] So that just that made me giggle when I read that, and it's not the fact that he has it it's the fact that he was given to him also. 
Pastor Bill: [20:53] Right if you look at the word that it comes from which is existing. 
Pastor Newms: [20:58] Hm 
Pastor Bill: [20:59] It says, I'm personally it is right through the figurative idea of being out in public to be. 
[21:20] This privileged this jurisdiction and Authority legally is this was a legal transaction that gave me this. 
[21:35] However this Authority this jurisdiction is Liberty this this right this shrink. 
Pastor Newms: [21:55] And it's interesting when you look at different, translations on how they they put it also so if you look at like the KJV it just says teach All Nations, and then it says teaching but it's it's different it's to become a pupil of, to be a scholar to it's not as simple as to teach and I think that's in and of itself a huge part of the problem with why we've missed, the Great Commission as a large hole over time is because of, that misuse of that word teach in the KJV whereas in the csb and you know what you hear a lot more now is the hole, making disciples because. 
Pastor Bill: [23:03] The word in verse 19 it. 
Pastor Newms: [23:06] Oh yeah yeah. 
Pastor Bill: [23:23] Which is do literally Tootsie. 
Pastor Newms: [23:24] To teach yeah and I think yeah. 
Pastor Bill: [23:27] Two completely different words that King James translates adds the same idea. 
Pastor Newms: [23:33] And and I think that that starts to cause you know part of our problem as a culture when we when we, so often have not dug into scripture just, Reddit moved on heard it moved on you know things like that and that is of itself is funny to me because, dates this command which is. 
Pastor Bill: [24:02] The one where the one gentleman that was joining us from her face to face over and over and over and, we had this one conversation where he got frustrated and he said so what every time I read the Bible I'm supposed to go back to the original language and find out what they were talking about, I don't have time for that I just want to read it in the King James and then applied to my life and I was like no that's exactly what we're saying you to do if you don't have contacts, then how do you know how to apply it to your life oh what did I just read it but but the words use their don't have the same meaning as the word you're using now, English has morphed, so you're reading words they're thinking it's saying one thing when it really meant something else and you don't know what those translators meant unless you go back to the original and go oh well this word actually means this. 
Pastor Newms: [24:53] And then even farther it's the act of studying you know what was going on at the time because. 
Pastor Bill: [24:59] Why would he why would he choose to use those words. 
Pastor Newms: [25:03] Yeah it's like. 
Pastor Bill: [25:04] That's the context of the context you know. 
Pastor Newms: [25:06] Yeah like the eye of the camel the eye of the needle you know when you when you look at the eye of the needle today you're like oh yeah a rich person can never do it. 
Pastor Bill: [25:16] We and I have needles real small how do you fit a camel to that. 
Pastor Newms: [25:18] It's real small and you're like you're like no no because you'd have to guide the camel and push the camel in you'd have to massage the. 
Pastor Bill: [25:25] Door in a wall of a city they're not talking about a sewing needle. 
Pastor Newms: [25:29] It's little things like that that when you don't have that context you don't know what the words behind the words are or the meaning behind the words and and let's be honest we struggle with it now too, because we're using the Strong's Concordance which strong wrote you know how long ago so, some of those words are still confusing and not a hundred percent but that's also where the Holy Spirit comes into play and where you have to compare it with everything else in Scripture, so that way, people often take the one verse and be like okay there's one verse about it and see that means I'm right but then when you look at it that one verses that say what you think it says and it doesn't line up with the rest of scripture but we've based whole dogmas whole groups of language you know groups of beliefs on one single thing. 
Pastor Bill: [26:25] We've lost sections of teaching that the churches churches used to teach because, pastors lost some pastors lost this idea of what does that mean and I so I found one scripture that says one thing and then this other scripture that's supposed to support it, doesn't support it in my language it seems to be a contradiction, well yeah because in the original it does support it and any even in King James is time it's still supported it but because language changes now those two scriptures that mean the same thing use words that make it feel, like they do. 
Pastor Newms: [27:07] Yeah and so I think it's really important when we're looking at things, and and this is something that when we are discipling someone in the faith we have to have those types of conversations we can't just hand them, a new testament in any translation or message or you know any format just hand it to him say okay here go have fun welcome to Christianity yay, you know that's that's something that's happened year generation after generation year after year we've stopped discipling new Christians. 
Pastor Bill: [27:49] Even even when we were going with he Mania, I know some people have complained it in on some mission trips they didn't they just hit and run hit and run the everyone that I went on we were always working closely with, translators who were recruited by local churches who were giving out information on who those churches were and getting those people's information so the churches could follow up you know what I mean. 
Pastor Newms: [28:13] Yeah and that's. 
Pastor Bill: [28:14] And not just a hit-and-run hit-and-run hit-and-run but more of a hey here's this. 
[28:28] People from the area. 
Pastor Newms: [28:29] And and what you just said is what's so important about this is the relational aspect the difference between teaching someone something and having a disciple is, the relationship so like if you're just teaching, teaching from a Pulpit teaching from a tape teaching online teaching by text writing books whatever if that's all that's being done for new Christians and new people to the faith and people trying to find faith. 
Pastor Bill: [29:00] We do need teachers so it's not like that's not a need. 
Pastor Newms: [29:01] We do you have no it that's the second that's the second part we have to teach him but we also have, have those relationships to bring people together. 
[29:32] So that's a great question and it's very important one, and I think it is at the point where you are comfortable, and where you are starting to also spread the message you know I think it's you who said it before I don't remember where you got it if you're not willing to take a phone call, in the middle of the night from someone who you've led to the Lord you're doing something wrong and, because if you are leading people to Christ you should be trying to also disciple now. 
Pastor Bill: [30:13] It's not about numbers it's about true Faith conversion discipleship relationship, new life you know James talks about if you see your brother cold and hungry and you just say be well-fed and stay warm, can you really not done anything for them it's the same way with salvation if you see someone struggling spiritually and and you hey you know you should get saved and here's this prayer say this prayer now go live your life, you've not actually done anything you've planted a seed but nothing else you've literally you need to follow you up you need to walk that mile. 
Pastor Newms: [30:57] And I think that's part of a huge issue in our culture and I don't mean just American culture I mean the church's culture overall is what you also said about the prayer you know, we talked about in scripture you know believe in confess right. 
Pastor Bill: [31:17] Confess with your mouth and believe in your heart. 
Pastor Newms: [31:19] Right the key there is there's an ant we as a culture so often have left out that and and are just pushing for confessions you know hey at church, and I get it to some degree what I'm about to say is not necessarily A condemnation but it's we get to the end of service, let's say you do the prayer you know for anyone who wants to raise your hand, thanks and good night the thanks and goodnight swear there's a problem the. 
Pastor Bill: [31:51] One of the things that a lot of a lot of ministers will openly admit to, is that these churches who have that format of we do the sinner's prayer every Sunday every Sunday, is they'll talk about people who respond 10 15 20 times to the sinner's prayer because, they still feel convicted they still feel like they're not saved they still feel that pool and it's simply because they don't actually believe yet, buying all of your hype and they're feeling all of the coercion and all of you know all of that but they're not actually believing yet. 
Pastor Newms: [32:34] And I think that's it comes down to a lot of what we're seeing also in people exiting, the faith is yeah you said a prayer and because you were taught if you say a prayer you are then you get down the road and you're like I don't agree with this at all. 
Pastor Bill: [32:53] Actually believe that any of this. 
Pastor Newms: [32:54] Believe in this I don't feel this I don't it's like okay well you didn't then. 
Pastor Bill: [33:00] Because you never did you never were a Believer not trying to judge you not trying to judge the way you thought you're living your life simply pointing a light on, you're not wrong you're not you know. 
Pastor Newms: [33:12] Yeah. 
Pastor Bill: [33:14] You're feeling this dysphoria in this confusion in this oh my gosh I've wasted all this time yeah but that's not your fault that's the fault of the guy that coerced you with this, it will cut and paste lie about what salvation was. 
Pastor Newms: [33:27] And didn't have the follow-up because there are people that there are churches out there that do the prayer or do the rays of the hand or do this come forward and then they do the follow-up it's okay you know here's information. 
Pastor Bill: [33:42] And there are people that truly are ready, when that call comes I like me I responded to an altar call at a big youth conference and acquire the fire youth, but I was ready I was there I was convicted I was at that point of belief. 
Pastor Newms: [34:02] And that's what's so important is we have to and and, you know the big part we're going to be talking just so you guys are all aware, the next several weeks is all about discipleship so many different facets talked about for the next couple weeks because maybe I have or have not, currently been doing a Bible study by. 
Pastor Bill: [34:32] No yeah that's his how this works yeah we this this series of episodes is inspired by Tony Evans what was it called I can't remember the name. 
Pastor Newms: [34:39] It's Kingdom disciples. 
Pastor Bill: [34:45] Kingdom disciples that this pole six-week series is inspired by. 
Pastor Newms: [34:48] Yep. 
Pastor Bill: [34:50] Tony Evans Kingdom disciples Bible study. 
Pastor Newms: [34:52] Yep and and so because of that you know it's going to be, it's going to be discipleship and different aspects of discipleship you know not just it's not gonna be the same conversation for six weeks don't worry, some of its going to get repeated but not all of it what are the other things that, is so important about this verse to me is we've missed it as a culture and the biggest part, and problem I have with it is it's not our Generations fault and I will say it is not our parents Generations fault and I will say, not their Generations you know it's. 
Pastor Bill: [35:39] Last week we were talking about Malachi and how when they opened the law to read the law the people wept, not because they felt like it was their fault or their parents fault of their parents parents fault but the fact that they had this revelation of we didn't know and we weren't told, the people before us weren't told and if you before them weren't told so but now we know the truth. 
Pastor Newms: [36:05] Yeah at some point we lost a big chunk of and and I think you know we hear this, recently a lot in, in churches and in religious Circles of there's an exodus from Christianity and the people that are staying in Christianity want to change it, or want to update it because they've quote unquote got new Revelations that no one has ever believed in and so because of that you know they're probably wrong and we're traditionalists and and ducted up to that you know some thick some complaints are happening in certain circles but it's that situation like we were talking about Malachi where, it's not that, this generation and I'm definitely not saying me but this generation's new Revelations and including people like, you know dr. Evans and people like you know prominent authors people who have been studying people have been using the same translation of the Bible for most of their Ministry and then all of a sudden were like you know what, there's this new version of the Bible that I really really like so for my whole next study I'm actually going to take all my notes from years and years and put it in a Bible and produce that also you know and. 
Pastor Bill: [37:28] There's the issue of okay, duration of Christians that are going, we really shouldn't be doing church this way we really shouldn't be doing things this way how we know that's not one of those how do we know it's not when John is writing the Book of Revelation he also hears Mysteries and the angel says no no those aren't for you to reveal yet, those are for later how do we know that's not what's happening. 
Pastor Newms: [38:07] Or it's not and we don't know what they are yeah I know I know I know what you're saying yeah. 
Pastor Bill: [38:16] That it goes back to the thing of Paul that says hey if it's good embrace it if it's bad don't but don't reject the whole idea just go, hey you know what maybe that might be good maybe it's a good thing to tell people who are attracted to the same sex they are that yeah we could use your help, you know updating our facilities and reaching out to our communities and acting in love and embrace those people hand-in-hand and go you know what let's make a. 
[38:59] Wow Pastor down the road that we invited to come speak for us is on his second marriage and that woman was his secretary that he cheated on his first wife with and then left her to marry him, wait a second so that sexual sins okay but okay okay I'm yeah. 
Pastor Newms: [39:22] Yeah. 
Pastor Bill: [39:23] I'm on I'm on back off because I'm getting I'm getting. 
Pastor Newms: [39:25] You're getting on your soapbox and and that's okay but that's but that's that's part of what this is about is you know we've so much looked at for so long the aspects of, this is what how we do it this is exactly how this is exactly this is the only way but the problem is, you know in talking about that whole let's not blame the people above us the people above them the people that you know, the last several Generations the issue isn't with them they were doing what they were taught they were doing what they were taught they were doing what they were taught they studied because, confirmation bias you can study, I'm not never going to say that those people did not study the word pour into it try to understand it and come away, with confirmation with the holy spirit that they were correct because the Holy Spirit speaks to each of us differently, what is sin for one is not for another you know we have lots of passages that we've talked about so many times we situations like this so it's no wonder. 
Pastor Bill: [40:29] Put also the Holy Spirit doesn't approve. 
[40:51] Given the Martin Luther because it was intended for Martin Luther. 
Pastor Newms: [40:53] Unless it was given to him and then he ignored it and then God gave it to Martin Luther also you know but that's a whole other issue. 
Pastor Bill: [41:01] That were the case every time that's been the case in my in my experience every time that's been the case the person who received the Revelation has always said I was told this was for somebody else. 
Pastor Newms: [41:11] Yeah. 
Pastor Bill: [41:12] And then they came to me because the other person said no Martin Luther never said. 
Pastor Newms: [41:16] No he did and I'm not trying to say that's what happened I'm just saying you know that is the does happen sometimes. 
Pastor Bill: [41:22] It does happen. 
Pastor Newms: [41:24] But I think it's so important that we look at the discipleship of people you know we as a culture failed, the capital c church has failed time and time again because we're human you know that that's you know when we look at, when we look at things like sin and you know you say something like oh the capital churches is terrible or this local church is horrible or this and you're like you're like well yeah because it's ran by, people. 
Pastor Bill: [41:59] That was the point if the church was perfect then there'd be no room for faith without faith there'd be no room for salvation, so we'd all be going to hell if the Bible was literal and true and the church was perfect and not made of men then there would be no faith and we'd all be going to hell. 
Pastor Newms: [42:21] If God revealed everything to us in Scripture, then we wouldn't need faith faith is such an important aspect of our faith because that's what we title belief systems. 
Pastor Bill: [42:36] Of our faith but I mean seriously that's why that I mean it's literally it's as plain as the nose on our faces this is why the Bible isn't, an inerrant infallible textbook of, that reveals everything about God this is why Jesus chose 12 very fallible men one of them who betrayed him and then killed himself one of them who was Peter, which it's debatable on whether or not Peter was worse than Judas. 
Pastor Newms: [43:11] It depends on what sins were lining up next to each other really. 
Pastor Bill: [43:15] Right in our opinion right, he built this in they built this fallible Church, because if it was perfect if it was infallible then your trust would be in the church your trust would be in the Bible and your faith and trust wouldn't be in God. 
Pastor Newms: [43:34] And as mr. groggy just said in chat if it revealed everything we wouldn't believe it it blow our minds we couldn't handle it. 
Pastor Bill: [43:44] Like when at the end of Dogma when God speaks, and the Revelation just literally blows people's heads off of hearing God's voice that's what it would be like, exactly what it'd be like. 
Pastor Newms: [43:59] Just a couple weeks ago I was watching the supernatural when the Angels speak that even even. 
Pastor Bill: [44:03] Oh man the archangels. 
Pastor Newms: [44:05] That it's just like oops. 
Pastor Bill: [44:08] They literally have to take over human bodies and then speak to the human bodies because if they speak without a human body then people's heads to start exploding. 
Pastor Newms: [44:16] Now that's the supernatural Dogma let's be. 
Pastor Bill: [44:19] Yeah this is Supernatural take on. 
Pastor Newms: [44:21] Yeah let's be clear we're not saying that's what actually happens with angels because I'm not putting angels in any form of box because I'm not going there. 
Pastor Bill: [44:33] Well every time God speaks in the Bible why is it always just still small voice it's because God's Whispering because if he talks louder than a whisper, we're up the creek I love the line from Dogma where metatron's like we went through seven Adams before we figured that out. 
Pastor Newms: [44:51] Oh the late great Alan Rickman love that man. 
Pastor Bill: [44:55] Yeah Alan Rickman 7 I don't have any items it was but it was you know whether we're in a certain amount of atoms we figured out that humans can't hear God's voice doesn't work. 
Pastor Newms: [45:07] Kevin Smith, he's getting his own comic book series like a whole group of them supposedly Dark Horse which give him some Dark Horse Comics that's gonna be exciting anyway um will stop fangirling over directors that we love and go. 
Pastor Bill: [45:27] You know it's just going to be blunt man and chronic it's not gonna be anything cool it's just going to be blunt man and chronic sitting around getting high. 
Pastor Newms: [45:32] If you do a bluntman and chronic Dark Horse version I'm dead like I mean on you know Dark Horse. 
Pastor Bill: [45:40] There's going to be like skulls goal of bongs like. 
Pastor Newms: [45:42] Yeah bongs that's what you're looking for it yeah so back to. 
Pastor Bill: [45:49] Back to Matthew 28:9 18 through 20. 
Pastor Newms: [45:53] So when we look at that this is what's so important for us is to make disciples now when, yeah like when Jesus wait she just told Lazarus to come I'm confused on where Biggs went with that. 
Pastor Bill: [46:11] Yeah me too. 
Pastor Newms: [46:12] Like when Jesus told Lazarus to come out of the Tomb that he was in for three days I there's always a delay, with pigs typing because they get it delayed and then they he has to type it burn away for him to give us some more context, I'm probably sure I probably don't disagree with him because I usually don't but um me and Biggs is, oh voice value yeah yeah exactly Jesus Jesus has the voice, you know even God in Jesus's body can straight talk through you know, spiritual Realms and like you know called Lazarus back to his body and tell him to come out you know okay cool I'm with you now Biggs. 
Pastor Bill: [47:13] It's raining on your cultural viewpoint on when the soul leaves the body according to the Jewish Viewpoint he was still there the Angels hadn't come to take him out of the body yet. 
Pastor Newms: [47:26] He was just in adamant at the moment but still had to wake him up. 
Pastor Bill: [47:33] Yeah had to have the ability to wake him up. 
Pastor Newms: [47:34] Asleep and which Jesus says several times it's fine she's just asleep I'll go take care of it you're fine so I think that's so important though is that. 
Pastor Bill: [47:45] Jesus what do you mean she's just asleep what do you want me to do you want me to say she's dead and just like wreck their whole world what and I could have just as easily said that but I mean it's the same thing to me. 
Pastor Newms: [47:59] But mother favorite you know Jesus Jesus is often times so downplayed in how he actually was when you really think about it so it's like, come get up and walking and send no more, you know the one time when he says something like that in the Pharisees are like you can't say that and he's like what would you rather me say all of his sins are forgiven move on like and they're like no we wouldn't want you to say that because. 
Pastor Bill: [48:30] 20 when he heals when he tells when he heals the hand of the man whose hand was shriveled is what you're. 
Pastor Newms: [48:34] Oh is that what it is okay. 
Pastor Bill: [48:36] Doesn't do extend his hand and be healed as you can't do that on us on a Sabbath and he goes would you rather me say your sins have been forgiven you, and then like. 
Pastor Newms: [48:48] It's just you know. 
Pastor Bill: [48:53] The SAS man the absolute SAS. 
Pastor Newms: [48:55] He had sass so the main point as we wrap up here because we're right at time that I really want to make is, we're not saying in any way that what you've done is wrong your evil you shouldn't be preaching you shouldn't be any of that what we're saying is. 
Pastor Bill: [49:20] I'm saying it's wrong I'm saying you're not at fault. 
Pastor Newms: [49:24] The the problem is we've got to take it to that next step you know the preaching is great, people saved is amazing it is important we're not trying to say salvation isn't important of course not because that would be insanity, but we have to continue to disciple the people that we. 
Pastor Bill: [49:46] You can't tell Mission can't be your opener. 
Pastor Newms: [49:50] Right you shouldn't be yours. 
Pastor Bill: [49:53] Holy Spirit specifically tells you. 
Pastor Newms: [49:55] Yeah now there are people who have had the seeds the seeds done and done and done and done and they come they can walk into your church what angle I need to find Jesus because that has happened. 
Pastor Bill: [50:06] Yeah but if the person has enough seeds planted that you asking them if they want salvation if they're at that point then you being a loving human being that is open about your relationship with God, we'll also have the same. 
Pastor Newms: [50:21] Yeah cuz they know that it's safe to talk to you, and then we have to continue with that friendship that building upon them that teaching them, training them working with them as, fellow Believers and discipling them to equip them to be able to do the right thing not just telling them good you're good to go here's a Bible figure it out peace and then wondering why, fifty hundred years down the road our nation is where it is and I'm gonna leave it at that and let you believe whatever you want on that. 
Pastor Bill: [51:02] I'm reminded of Smith Wigglesworth early on in his very very very long as the ministry he steps onto a train car, and a guy sees his face and goes, gets up you've convinced me of my sin and gets on his knees how can I be safe, and then he leads them to the Lord right then and there and it's like that guy was ready and also nose Wiggles were a dentist step onto the train car and the guy was already ready. 
[51:42] I'm not mixing stories right he's the plumber that couldn't read. 
Pastor Newms: [51:46] I believe so. 
Pastor Bill: [51:49] Yeah and then couldn't read never was never taught to read and then picked up a Bible and was like hey look I can read this. 
Pastor Newms: [52:00] Big and Pentecostalism. 
Pastor Bill: [52:09] Was that Charles Capps that was the plumber could. 
Pastor Newms: [52:10] I think you might be off Wigglesworth was the bishop who was, illiterate as a child unschooled because of his labors he worked as a plumber, he abandoned it because he became too busy after he started preaching so I yes I believe you are he also had lots and lots of, peelings attached to him. 
Pastor Bill: [52:53] Came into possession of his first Bible that he owns because he memorized Psalm 91 the longest, chapter in the Bible as part of the contest whoever could memorize accurately the most of Psalms 91 would win their own Bible and he was borrowing another Bible. 
[53:23] You could win his own Bible because it was actually hard to get a Bible then it wasn't like you could just, go into any church and be like hey can I get a free Bible or go into any bookstore going to Walmart either there was another you know, now their Bibles everywhere but it wasn't always so. 
Pastor Newms: [53:45] It wasn't all right so that's all I had to do you have anything else Pastor Bill. 
Pastor Bill: [53:53] Did you know the number one item stolen from Christian bookstores as leather-bound Bibles. 
Pastor Newms: [54:01] I mean that makes sense it's the number one thing sold at Christian bookstores. 
Pastor Bill: [54:08] But I mean it's another one thing stolen is the book that literally says do not steal. 
[54:30] This to last time you stole one did you. 
Pastor Newms: [54:32] Okay I'll give you that if you're stealing multiple Bibles unless you're off giving them away to homeless or giving way to last for. 
Pastor Bill: [54:39] A little bit you're pulling a Robin Hood, steal him from the corporations to get in the way down was. 
[54:52] I love it. 
Pastor Newms: [54:52] I can't say I'm against it. 
Pastor Bill: [54:57] Yeah big says they hadn't read it yet. 
Pastor Newms: [54:59] Yeah yeah yeah alright so thank you so much for joining us those that joined us live, great those it listened great, but you should come join us live because it's more fun one you get to hear things everyone else doesn't, and I would love to say it's because we cut a bunch in post but it's really just the beginning in the end cuz I'm not editing stuff, but come join us you can be part of the conversation and build relationships because that's what this is all about, and you can talk and chat or you know, fellowshipping I know like my parents watch it together and then talk about it while it's being watched and then call me after if they need to you know things like that you know let's come together and. 
Pastor Bill: [55:55] Call you after. 
Pastor Newms: [55:55] Sometimes you know sometimes kiss. 
Pastor Bill: [55:58] And sometimes that goes well and sometimes. 
Pastor Newms: [56:01] We don't always we do. 
Pastor Bill: [56:02] There are disagreements but that's part of being Berean. 
Pastor Newms: [56:05] Yes we don't agree on everything and that's perfectly fine there are times where me and you have phone calls afterwards and it's like you know I even tonight you're like I don't like your title and I was like well this, this is why the title is there and you're like oh I don't like it though I'm like okay. 
Pastor Bill: [56:24] If you learned. 
Pastor Newms: [56:25] You little. 
Pastor Bill: [56:26] We don't have to agree on everything. 
Pastor Newms: [56:27] Yeah we don't and so come join us which that I'm pretty. 
Pastor Bill: [56:35] The Jesus thing. 
Pastor Newms: [56:36] Oh yeah Jesus Jesus is important that's the thing we agree on. 
Pastor Bill: [56:40] Everything else is gravy. 
Pastor Newms: [56:41] It is it is and to be clear it's not just Jesus he's cool and that cesspits not you know there's more to it than. 
Pastor Bill: [56:49] Jesus is Lord. 
Pastor Newms: [56:51] Yeah so come join us we record this Sunday nights at 6:30 Central whatever time we live in now, I don't know whether it's you have to say the daylight or not I get so confused I don't know. 
Pastor Bill: [57:07] Right now it's CD t-- 
Pastor Newms: [57:09] Yeah but there's the whole thing about the laws and the changing in the stuff. 
Pastor Bill: [57:13] It hasn't happened yet though so. 
Pastor Newms: [57:15] I just don't know when it's going on I don't know anyway um, join us we're on Twitch Facebook and YouTube and then come join us and you could talk in the chat over there and. 
Pastor Bill: [57:33] The podcast is available everywhere the podcast anywhere that you can buy your podcast, you can buy our podcast there for the low low cost of go to the free section. 
Pastor Newms: [57:42] Free yeah. 
Pastor Bill: [57:44] To buy episodes of our podcast. 
Pastor Newms: [57:50] Weird Apple people do you accept two down to click on every episode on Apple is that an apple thing, what are you talking about, boy okay so I hope you guys have a great week we will see you next time go to our website ekk not house for more info on anything and you, look like in 50 years. 
Pastor Bill: [58:17] Tip yeah there's 50 years. 
Pastor Newms: [58:20] So and we love you guys and you didn't say it. 
Pastor Bill: [58:29] Stay safe out there. 
Pastor Newms: [58:30] There you go until next time.

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